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Yosh Uchida - Part 2 of 5

Interviewer: Vickie Taketa, Mike Honda
 Interviewee: Yosh Uchida (1920 - 2024)

Transcript of Yosh Uchida

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Timeframe 0:00 >> 3:37

I spend most of my time after coming back from Japan in Upland; Upland next door to Cucamonga. And every time I see a snow up there, way, way out, I think of the time that I came back from Japan. I came back when the Japanese, Japanese Exclusion Act went into effect sometime in June or July of 1924, and I just came back in time to not to be sent back to Japan.

Well, I was born in Calexico because my parents lived there, and that's all I know! So I figured I must have been born in Calexico.

(Interviewer) Just so I understand that your parents cultivated chili peppers, huh?

Yeah. They had a dairy farm, before they had all that. But... in Calexico, they, they had lots of cows and then the dairy farm. Yeah. And apparently they did pretty well in the dairy farm. And so, right after my, right after I there was after the... they had a flu... I don't know if they said those were pretty bad flu. Yeah. And my parents took me and my two brothers, my brother and my sister, back to Japan.

(Interviewer) All because of the flu.

Because of the flu. Yes.

(Interviewer) That was the Spanish flu of the 1920s?

Yeah, right. And I came back in 1924.

(Interviewer) 24. They talk about the pandemic, COVID-19. The past one was the Spanish Flu back then.

That's right. Right.

(Interviewer) So you got to see two pandemics. [Yosh laughs] And but your parents went back to Japan to avoid.

Right. I think that was the idea, yeah.

(Interviewer) So you don't remember anything about dairy, or about... No, I don't. I don't remember too much about Japan, except that I know that they had a lot of trees around the place where we lived. And, of course, where... One of the things they always talked about, the Japanese, where the fox, or the tanuki, or the kitsune. So that's all I know about Japan.

(Interviewer) What's kitsune?

Fox

(Interviewer) Ohhh, What was the other Japanese word?

Japanese version, always scary [Japanese raccoon dog].

Timeframe 3:37 >> 7:22

When I came back, I came back to a place called uhhh…way out in the east side, right under the mountain. And it was at that time called, let's see, uhh... it was, uh, uh, it was close to, close to all those mountains. Uh, up in Cucamonga.

(Interviewer) You mentioned Upland, You mentioned Cucamonga.

What?

(Interviewer) You mentioned Cucamonga and you mentioned Upland.

And I think Cucamonga and all those places that Jack Benny used to, when he was a comedian, would talk about Cucamonga. And that's where I used to come live.

(Interviewer) Yeah. ‘It was all a bore?’ And then say, 'We're going to stop in Cucamonga.' How many Japanese nikkeis? Do you remember how many? Was there a lot of nikkeis out that way? Do you remember?

Very few. And the only one was I remember one family, and I think we split a room with them or something.

(Interviewer) Okay. So and you were growing up, so did you play with a lot of kids? Do you remember?

Uh, no just these kids. There are no. No Caucasian kids. They were. Just these similar Japanese kids.

(Interviewer) There's no Mexican kids?

No.

(Interviewer) Uh, pretty, pretty sparse population though.

Oh yeah.

Well, you know, I was not always a good side, I used to-- we were right by a railroad. And I use to go, sometimes I get bored, I guess I would put rocks in the railway track, and one time the railroad... railroad train stopped. And I guess it was the conductor, 'You know, young man?' [chuckles] Of course, I was scared stiff, but he said, ‘if that thing blows, they'll blow right at you and hurt you so you better not do that anymore.' After that, I was a good, good kid.

(Interviewer) Did you ever put a penny on on the on the railroad?

No.

(Interviewer) How about a nail, or just rocks?

No, I just put rocks.

Systems & Power Timeframe 7:22 >> 15:19

Well, we moved and we moved in the Garden Grove area and... because I guess the land was cheap, and we were able to... not me, my dad was able to get it at cheap, cheap rate, and we farmed 80 acres there, and what did we grow? We grew some tomatoes, and we grew larger chili peppers. And why I grew, why we grew chili pepper? I don't know why. But I think all the Japanese in that area grew chili peppers. And one of the, one of the farmers named Urata, and he had a thousand acres leased, and he, he would put in chili pepper. And my, my dad didn't know anything about chili pepper, but we would put chili pepper in.

That's right? Orange County, Garden Grove was in, right in the center of Orange County.

(Interviewer) There's, you know, a lot of Asians there now too.

And now there's quite a bit of Asians, right. Well, Garden Grove had a high school and there was... just was not the best high school, I guess. And they had Anaheim High School, Santa Ana High School, uh, you know, Orange High School. They were, they were better high schools than the one we went to but it was close and uh, we got to know people as we went from bus or we got transportation; we didn't have any other way.

Except later on, we, we went to Japanese school. And we had a Japanese, we had a Japanese school bus that would pick us up and take us to the different schools, grammar school, and that's how I can remember going on different buses. Otherwise there was Garden Grove Grammar School, Garden Grove High School.

In high school, you know, they don't have that system like they had that, uh, and you know, when you're young, we were, we were being measured in height, and we got an exponent for being so tall and how much we weighed and we played football, basketball, everything. But we were small kids, and the Caucasian guys were pretty big. But the when... we were in grammar school, and we, we were not too big, but we played among ourselves. And, uh, sometimes they felt we're good enough to play on the team, so, our B, maybe a B-team in grammar school or basketball. Yeah. Would play a B-team from Yorba Linda or some place or Anaheim. And you it, it was, it was sort of fun for us because we never had that experience that playing together. But in these games that, Japanese students were pretty good because they were very much… they were faster you know, well coordinated, move around. But the score was probably about 10 to, then like 12 to 13. And that was a game. But when we were in grammar school that was up to 8th grade, we had a lot of Mexicans, and we only stayed in the school for a short period of time, and the Mexicans went to Hoover High School and we went to another school called Lincoln High School.

So we were separated school. And we the-- we did the Mexicans were much better players than us, they were taller, they were bigger but the same same grade as we were maybe fourth grade, fifth grade, you know. So they were but they were much bigger and stronger. And then we went to the Lincoln Grammar School and... well, in that it was all Caucasian and we seemed to hold out. So the Japanese were in that category where we could play with Caucasians

(Interviewer) So sounds like this the schools were segregated.

Yeah, right. We were, we were segregated and would say... well 'How come Tony's going?' Well, they would never say because he was a Mexican, but they said, 'They built a new school for him.' Oh yeah? Is that Hoover High School? Or for Hoover grammar school. And at high school, high school, we right after eighth grade we went to high school. It was a made up of... the only people that were separated were Japanese and the Caucasian people, the Mexicans went.

(Interviewer) To the other high schools?

I don't know where they went, but they went to different high schools.

Timeframe 15:19 >> 20:13

Oh, I took up some wrestling when I was... in junior college in Fullerton after I graduated from high, high school.

(Interviewer) And can you tell us more about wrestling? I mean, what was it like?

Oh, I was never enthused about wrestling. I was taking judo, and somehow I could beat all of these wrestlers. It was no fun. So the only thing I like about it was we take a trip to San Francisco. And see, see the schools in San Francisco, and they were the World's Fair. They were in a wrestling or something. And we never-- I never thought that there was anything because they would have wrestling. And then a month and one year went... they never got anything. So we just wrestled just, just so that the coach knew that we participated, up in, at... San Francisco and yours and it-- it's an island now.

(Interviewer) Yerba Buena? Or was it Treasure Island?

Treasure Island. And the rules and all this… What to expect in years to come. And today I see... in movies, but then in television. Uh, you know the people on call... called in for rings. I never was good at it, so I never been paid too much attention to it anyway.

(Interviewer) So you like judo more than you like wrestling?

Oh yeah.

(Interviewer) So-- or they're not the same, huh?

They're, they're not the same. And the guys that took wrestling didn't know what they were doing. And I think the standard [inaudible] without doing anything. So they were, it wasn't any fun.

(Interviewer) You know, well, judo did a lot of mat work, huh?

Yeah, we had a lot.

(Interviewer) And so the mat work would probably use against it because I remember you used to have...The judo team and the wrestling team, uh, compete with each other at San Jose State. Yeah, they later on-- I saw that when I went through, at San Jose State, they competed against each other.

(Interviewer) Because you did it too. And, and your brother coached wrestling…

Yeah. Yeah, right.

(Interviewer) So, was he taking up wrestling at Fullerton also or?

He, uh, my brother, wrestled at San Jose State. And then he got his degree from the school, and he coached at one of the high schools there: Andrew Hill.

(Interviewer) Yeah. Yeah. And... he developed some good teams.

Yeah.

(Interviewer) Um, I think at one time, they took state championship, didn't they?

Yeah, his team was good. Uh, yeah. Had come back from Japan and he had attended... I think, Meiji, Meiji University and graduated from there. He came and did a graduate course at San Jose State and then he got a job here.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 20:13 >> 26:57

Oh after Fullerton, I decided I gotta get a better education because yeah-- I thought I was pretty smart in chemistry cuz I was getting good grades. But I think the, the, the... the teacher taught tennis, and I think he thought more about tennis than the chemistry course. Cuz many, two years later I went to take an exam and Dr. Dr. Williams, I still remember remember his name, he gave us all an exam. There was 105 students in the class, and I after after the exam was over a couple of days, and I went to look at where I stood, and I figure, 'Well, I must be in the middle of the class.' So I got in, there were 105 students, so I got in about 50 students here. I went all the way up. I figured I can't be that dumb. So I found 50 all the way up and I followed. I didn't find my name. I said, 'Oh, my God.' So I started going down and down from 50. Now it's down to about 70. My name's not on. So I going down... and I found my name on around 100 and I thought, 'Wow, 105 students and mine down at 100... I'm really dumb, or... what's wrong?’ I checked, you know, nothing wrong with all wrong answers and... then the next day the... Dr. Williams, I still remember, he said, 'You know, I don't want your people to get disturbed, disturbed because I had about three, four, four, five years ago, a girl that was 105th hundred, she came and she was ready to drop the class. But I told her not to.’ She stayed in class, at the end of the semester, he said, ‘she was right at the top.' I said, 'Wow, if that girl can do it. I should be able to do it. So I got back, I really started to study. I, I... was listening more to the tennis coach who was talking about how you hold this racket, how the strings had to be threaded through the tennis racket.

And I listened more to his tennis lecture than I did on chemistry. So I really started to study. And the thing... and at the end of the semester, I was a 100, out of 105 student. So I said, 'Well, that's worth remembering.' And I use that point many times. When I was coaching judo, I tell students, 'This is very important.' And I would ask the,, 'What's your grade point?' And they all say, 'Three.' I said, 'Three?? How can you make three? That's a B!' And another student I would go by, 'What's your grade point, son?' He'll say, 'Oh, my grade point is 3.4-something.' So I said, that kid was making a three point, and 'You're barely, barely passing. You got to do better than that.' And so I think the students at San Jose State when they-- they were always afraid or stubborn. I’d ask, what’s your grade point, son? And they were almost all, they were almost all coming up on 3.0 or someone will say, 'Oh, I have all A's.' And fortunately because maybe they're... the students taking judo almost always say 'I have all A's.' My grade point is all A's and that's something that we're very proud of.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 26:57 >> 30:25

‘They will look down on the Japanese as being a bunch of ‘dirty Japs’. ‘Dumb Japs’. And I always said, ‘Be sure you have a... a average of, uh... close to, close to all A's.' And consequently because of that, then they, the nikkeis were almost always all A's. And I can always point out and say, 'he's an all A-student.' And there were times when I had to use that. I had a guy named Keith Nakasone come into class, and he was late. So I took him up to the registrar's office and they looked at him. They said, 'He can't get any class. He didn't sign up.' 'Yes, but his grades are good.' 'What grade? I don't see any grade.' 'He's good; he's an all A's student.' And they accepted Keith Nakasone on that my word that he was gonna-- and he made all A's. And these are kind of the reputation that the Japanese would, would establish, and the Caucasian would look at and say, 'They're good students.' And that's important. And this is something that most people didn't realize that how important it was to hold the high grade point. For us, it was a strong point to point out to the student. The Japanese and making all A's, and as time went on... the instructors in class would see that they were making all A's, and this was establishing the Japanese were interested in studying. And as time went on, they all kept going up, and the leader came, was made of all A's. So that was one thing that I... enjoyed seeing my team was... that all A. Or maybe one B. That's about it.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 30:25 >> 38:23

I always looked at, at the future. The future, that niseis can get there, but they have to have education; they have to have good grades; they have to participate on things and be able to stand up and answer questions that were relative to the class. And this is something that I always thought, as a nikkei, we never did. We were always scared of standing up and and expressing our position on issues that would come up. But as time went on, I saw how important because when you can when you can make a good, good challenge of things, too, and answer things, and you have to have studied. If you make-- make an intelligent answer, you get the respect of your school-- schoolmate and your teacher, and this was important and of course, a lot of the niseis never thought of it that way. But I think as time goes on they will push forward because they find, maybe, a cheerleader. So what the, what does the cheerleader having to do with it? The cheerleader would be here before the crowd. They would see a Japanese constantly. And I thought that was important, that-- that they were leading a group. So I, I always felt that they are, not only in school, but in whatever they did, the leadership, that they were president of clubs, that was more done. And not too many did that. But I noticed that like and in judo, I have students that do well in the past, and they are leaders in their clubs. By clubs, I mean, maybe a scholarship club, they are president, which means that they are out there reading and the the the clubs, the people in membership would like to see, Vice President because he is outstanding in his grades.

(Interviewer) That was important to you and the judo philosophy was something like that, too, was it not?

You know we, we used it. I use, used to in class, I used to say, 'Okay Joe, what was your grade point?' And then they said, 'Oh, me? Oh, my grade point? Let's see now, it's 2 point--.' I said 'Don't go any further. 2 point? What do you mean?' And, and the whole class would hear this and that's why they, alway make good grades.

(Interviewer) Peer pressure too.

Yeah, we just. I just pulled somebody's name out. Okay, Mike 'What's your grade point?'

(Interviewer) I wouldn't answer you [Laughter].

And then and as we move forward, they will be in judo... they will not only be good at judo, but they will be good that they will move forward. If they win championship, it'll be in the paper. 'Oh, yeah. So Mike Honda won the Pacific Coast championship.' 'Aw that's great, I gotta congratulate him, and so on and so forth.' And these are kindly they're very important to every nikkei.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 38:23 >> 43:43

(Interviewer) Do you have any stories about women in judo at San Jose State?

I have no, yeah. The girls that come here, they usually know that the first thing they do, they grab like you're most likely, you're touching the breast. So. But what time? I don't know. I never thought about it. But what time they get used to it? And if, you know, make a big issue out of it. They came all class. I never had trouble with them.

(Interviewer) Yeah. How many women champions did you have?

Oh, the biggest of them all, I have-- I don't know how many I have. But Marti Malloy is the top. But this girl came from high school in Seattle and she, she says her teacher was my brother and he said 'You're not going to make anything out of your yourself here. You're gotta go to San Jose State.' So she came to San Jose State. She came up and she says, 'You know, your brother told me to come to San Jose State.' And I said, 'That's good. What, what kinda grades-- you got? She had decent grades and everything... you have enough money?' And she says, 'No, I know, I need to go get some money.' She went short, grades, everything. They gave her money, and you know everything. Everything they said she, she, she she failed right away, and within a short period time she made, she made the Olympic team, and what she did as a woman making the Olympic team showed that they can do it, and made the Olympic team, and later on, later on she made Olympic team twice. And one thing, that she never, never bragged about how good she was. And anything about how good she was. She always helped out other people and one day she said, 'Mr. Uchida, you said that I will you be getting, getting lots of offers for job, but I haven't received any.' And I said, 'Marti, these thins take time. Just relax.' And suddenly, she then, all of a sudden she got about four offers on the same day. And she wanna know, 'I got all this offer' 'Marti, the offer is to you, don't tell me about it. Just sit. You make the right choice.' And she did. And she's executive of some big women's club clothing store in San Francisco. And she's the only, only man-- women. They, that says judo, she's Olympic champion judo, she's an executive, and and in this school... no, not school.... I don’t what I was going to say… anyway, that was Marti Malloy. And most, most girls, they win their champions, and rah rah, rah, you know. But Marti, it was... 'It's always my roommates that helped me,' and so on. And now she has people and the stores that the person are waiting to come in and say, 'Marti, we have an opening. Don't you wanna come? We'd like to have you come.' And and she's also pushing judo, and it's really, really great that now I know Olympic champion and an executive of big, big company is, every weekend, they're requesting her presence so she was talked to. And these are kind of thing that help your judo and you always want... never, never to say, 'Oh the heck with judo.' But this one girl made it, and it's-- is, is really tough for a girl to get in, get up there.

(Interviewer) She learned a lot of skills.

Oh, yeah. And not just this judo skill, but she learned how to handle herself. Yeah.

(Interviewer) Confidence.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 43:43 >> end

Why the AAU, for a long time, would not let judo into the American Athletic Union, and I had to really fight to get in.

(Interviewer) You changed the whole structure.

I was I was very fortunate that they listened to me, and they, after-- after they listened to me, they started I think, they found that even Japan was having trouble with-- with the weight system and just--and but they worked with the presentation of our weight system, they were able to change the Olympic trials, everything. That's the one thing that I really feel that I accomplished something.

(Interviewer) Not many people can say they impacted, you know, the Olympics. You know, that's a global, global impact. And then the national impact, and all that came.

Yeah, what it did was it opened judo to the world for any place... for the Cubans, because one day the Cubans met Japanese and it was over because the Japanese were that much better. Yeah. And these are kind of things that most, most people, don’t know. They think in judo, there’s nobody that can beat them except by weight.