~ Visit the official JAMsj website ~
AAPI & Japanese American Museum of San Jose
Digital Archive

Lucretia Fay Chan Le

Date: November 8, 2022
 Interviewer: Ellina Yin, Yvonne Kwan & Vickie Taketa
 Interviewee: Lucretia Lee (1945 - )

Lucretia Lee is a long-time educator and community advocate whose family history can be traced back to San Francisco's China Beach. In addition to her work with Asian American Community Involvement, she also served on the County of Santa Clara's Human Relations Committee, which coordinated the resettlement of Southeast Asian refugees.

Transcript of Lucretia Fay Chan Le

Click on any section of the transcript to jump directly to that segment of the video. This feature lets you quickly access the content you're interested in without the need to manually search through the entire video. You can also click on the tick below each transcript to expand the text and read the full content without playing that segment of the video.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 0:00 >> 5:24

Lucretia Fay Chan Lee. And I was born October 10th, 1945.

(Interviewer) Alright. and place of birth?

San Francisco.

(Interviewer) Do you have any siblings?

One sister, who's nine years younger than I am.

(Interviewer) All right. And did she stay in the local area?

Yes, she's in San Bruno.

(Interviewer) Okay. Your father's name and place of birth?

His name is John Y. Chan, and he was born San Francisco also. So he graduated high school. But later on in life, he got a college degree when he was 76.

(Interviewer) What was that college degree, and can you tell us that story?

So he was a Bachelor of Fine Arts. So he got into photography when he retired and entered a photograph at the San Mateo County Fair. And at one best of show. And the prize was a scholarship to attend the Academy of Arts. And since he was retired, he decided he would take up that offer. And he really enjoyed the classes there and the people there really liked him. So after the year, they offered to let him stay on to complete his degree. So at age 76, he graduated with a Bachelors of Fine Arts, and he lived to 100. So he actually accomplished quite a lot after he retired. Yes. My father was very artistic, always. But interestingly enough, when he went to school, he had a teacher that told him that he would never be good at art because his fingers were too stubby. And that always stuck with me. And later, as I became a teacher, you know, I always remembered what they had said to my dad and felt like, you know, a person should never say anything really negative to a child, you know?

And, but he pursued art anyway. And then he was an engineer or draftsman for the Division of Highways at that time. Now, Caltrans. But because he didn't have a college degree at that time... he didn't become, you know, a fully licensed engineer. But, you know, his drawings and things were always like, incredible. And he, and I remember as a child, you know, he would always take us to art museums. And so we pretty much-- even though he didn't do that much while I was growing up because he had two jobs and I was always really busy. But he, he always did encourage art in our family. I know during the war he worked for the Navy Signal Corps, so he might have done some type of drafting, you know, design work at that time.

(Interviewer) All right. And then what is your mother's name and place of birth?

Her name is Cecilia Louie Chan, and she was born San Francisco. [(Interviewer) Year?] And I-- I'm not sure she was born in 1916. And she graduated high school. And she had been interested in doing fashion design. But she never... I think she went briefly to a school of design but didn't get a degree or anything. Basically, she was a housewife until I was like in high school. And then she worked at a Chinese food concession down at the Hillsdale Mall. But she was an excellent seamstress, so she used to sew clothes for people.

(Interviewer) Do you know how she learned how to sew?

I think as a kid in Chinatown, she worked in a, you know, sewing factory like probably her mother did, too. And here's her sisters.

(Interviewer) How did your parents meet?

Oh, they both grew up in Chinatown, and they knew each other, like, since maybe junior high school. And at that time, the Chinese American community, very small and trying to pretty much everybody knew everybody else. So they had known each other for a long time before they got married.

(Interviewer) And when did they get married?

  1. We lived in San Francisco. Actually, our house was on Jackson Street right next to the cable car barn until I was five.
Systems & Power Timeframe 5:24 >> 9:40

And then as a child, I always was rather sickly. So they decided we were going to move where it was better weather. So my dad wanted to move to San Mateo. So 1950, I was five. We moved to this house in San Mateo. And there's kind of interesting story about this house because when my dad was looking for houses, the realtor told them that they wouldn't sell to Asians west of El Camino. But my dad was driving around and then a couple of blocks over he saw this Chinese person gardening, and they stopped to talk to him and he said, 'Oh, how is it that you have a house up here?' And he said, 'Oh, their family was in the flower growing business.' And his brother-in-law, or they stopped growing flowers, and they became a wholesale for Lee Brothers Association. And so he had this property where they used to grow flowers, and so he built several houses. And so this fellow, Donald Lee, introduced my dad to his brother-in-law. My dad talked to him and bought this house. And then he had built, I don't think the house next door, but the one on the other side and the one down the street he had built and so another Asian family bought the house two doors down. So the husband is Korean American. He was a doctor, and his wife was Chinese American. So that family moved in. And then there was a Caucasian family that was supposed to move in the house next door, but when they heard that there were Asians on either side, they didn't want to buy the house. So my dad told his friend who lived on the other side of San Mateo on Humboldt Street, that this house was for sale. So he bought it. So we kind of had three Asian families in a row and then the other block with a flower growing family. It was their whole family, you know. But grandmother, uncles, they all had a house on that block.

(Interviewer) So this was around the 1950?

Yeah this house was built in 1950. It wasn't very developed. Like all the houses up on the hill weren't built and we used to walk up and there would be cows there. And then even like the Hillsdale Mall, there were stores there, but there were separate stores, and the mall hadn't been built yet. The College of San Mateo hadn't been built yet. And then we used to look at our kitchen window and there was a drive-in across the freeway and we could see the screen. We couldn't hear anything, of course, but it was, you know, rather undeveloped at that time. And, you know, gradually people moved in and actually people in this neighborhood have lived here for a very long time. And so even now, most of the homes have a lot of their original owners or second owners like the lady next door had been there for years and years and she's probably in her nineties. And then just across the street, that woman just passed away last April, and she had been there for a long time. So the neighborhood is pretty stable, and now we're starting to get some younger families like the house next door. That person passed away. And so now there's a young couple with like a five-year-old kid. So slowly the neighborhood's changing.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 9:40 >> 12:18

When I was young, we didn't really do much because my dad always had two jobs. Like he worked really hard to try to pay off this house. So besides working for Caltrans, he worked on the weekends at Trader Vic's as a waiter. And so most of the time, the weekends, it was, you know, just my mom that was here, and so... we didn't really go on vacation till my dad, you know, didn't have a second job. And we would sometimes go to like Lake Tahoe or go on picnics at Golden Gate Park or, you know, just not no, no big trips, because at that time, most families didn't travel all that much or, you know, pretty much it was family centered. You know, we'd have people over, relatives. Yeah, we had a lot of family visited and I know I have a lot of cousins that would come, and they would like stay over or stay for a week and so we had a lot of people over. And like my mom liked to play mahjong, so, you know, she always would have a group over to do that. And then, well, my dad's really good friend lived next door and they had a daughter that was my age. And then actually the other house they had a daughter who was a year older. So pretty much we did a lot of neighborhood things. There was a local park not far. We probably went there, like, every day, you know. And at that time, you just sort of went and came home for dinner. I mean, like, parents didn't worry that you were gone, that whole day. And yeah, we do like bike riding. And I remember, they were building these two houses next door to us and, so, one of the moms, I remember, she used to make us bow and arrows from the trees that were on the parkway. And then we used to do things like collecting nails from them building houses, and nothing very exciting. Yeah. So just normal kid stuff. Played dodgeball and roller skating. Probably spent a lot of time outside. Yeah.

Timeframe 12:18 > 13:01

We didn't have a TV for a long time. I know when I lived in San Francisco, remember, we shared a flat with a cousin and they had a TV. So I would watch TV with their kids. And at that time, you know, there wasn't all that much. So we watched like Howdy Doody and I don't know, Captain Kangaroo. And my mom liked to watch like Lawrence Welk and the Hit Parade, so but we didn't watch that much TV. And, you know, I like to read a lot, so I, you know, I spent a lot of my time reading and drawing. Oh not so much TV.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 13:01 >> 16:57

Well, my family, you know, grew up pretty much in Chinatown. And so a lot of extended family, you know, we're very connected with things that went on in San Francisco, so my grandfather on my mother's side had a Chinese grocery store on the corner of Grant and Clay since 1909. And then he developed into, you know, also did catering in later years and two of my uncles also worked there. And that's become kind of an interesting thing because recently we had read in the paper that the state granted $26 million for them to develop a Chinese media and arts center on that site. And so my husband, Ron, contacted them and said, for one of our family reunions, he had made a slideshow about the history of the store and our family, and they were really interested. So we got in contact with them, we met with them and they're very excited to have part of that history incorporated into whatever they're doing. So one of my daughters now is helping to revise this website that Ron had started that showed the history of the store and... so that-- he had a grocery store, and then he also owned the building next door, which for a long time was rented out.

And there's kind of an interesting back story about that. This woman, Tain Chu, had lived in Albuquerque and had come out to California to go to school and she was going to become a teacher. But when she graduated, she decided she didn't want to be a teacher, she wanted to have a store, so she saw that my grandfather was renting that store next door to his grocery store, and she went to see if she could rent it. And he said, 'Oh, are you a Louie?' Because that's my grandfather's surname. And she said, 'No'. And they started asking her about her family and where she was from, and she told them so way back in, like I think 1937, there was some fellow, the last name of Louie that was riding the train on his way to Texas, but he died in Albuquerque on the train. And so people tried to find out, you know, who he was. And they contacted, like the Louie Family Association in San Francisco. Nobody knew who this guy was. So Tains’s family buried this fellow in Albuquerque and every year they would go visit his grave. So my grandfather knew about that story, but he didn't know about a fellow who had died there. And he said, 'Oh, you know, I know about your father.' And so he said, 'As long as I'm alive, you know, you can have the store.' So she did for many, many years. And then my grandfather passed away. My uncles took over for a while and then they passed away. So then the property was sold. So now she's still working, and she has a store down the block, still on Grant Avenue. But that was a pretty amazing story.

Systems & Power Timeframe 16:57 >> 18:24

(Interview) So was your maternal grandfather an immigrant here?

Yeah. But he was a merchant. And so at the time of the Chinese Exclusion Act, merchants were allowed to go back and forth to China. So the interesting thing that he also did was, he had listed at least 50 people who he said were partners in the store, but they really weren't. So they were also allowed to go back and forth to China because at that time, you know, if you left, you really couldn't come back during the Exclusion Act. And then my grandfather, my father's side, he was born in San Francisco, and he went back to China to get a wife, and even though he was a citizen, when he came back, he had to be vouched for by a Caucasian person. So we had to spend a lot of time going through our family records at the archives and in San Bruno. So it's pretty interesting, you know, all the interrogation process that they had to go through, even for my grandfather, who was a citizen, you know, wasn't all that easy.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 18:24 >> 22:00

(Interviewer) What was it like for you to learn about this history and when did you learn about this history?

Probably, you know, as an adult, you know, after college-- I mean, I guess in the back, I kind of always knew some of these stories, but at that time I wasn't all that interested. But more recently, it's become kind of even more interesting because a lot of things that were now going on like to revive Chinatown and, and, and my husband's side of the family. He got involved with China Camp because they also got money to renovate that site, and his mom had written a book telling about her family history and and how her family, who were sailors, were anchored at China Beach, but they weren't fishermen, which a lot of people had, you know, thought, because at that time they didn't allow Chinese to fish. But her family were sailors and they brought back bones from people who died in America back to China. So even now at Lincoln Park, right across from the Legion of Honor, there's a gate from when there, that was a Chinese cemetery. So that's still there. So they would collect the bones from that cemetery and then sail back to China.

My grandfather on my father's side was born here. So they were here pretty early and they weren't involved in, you know, the railroad or, Gold Rush kind of things. My grandfather was a Chinese musician and... but his family was very involved in the Chinese telephone exchange, which on Washington Street. And so I have a picture. We went to see my grandfather and my great grandfather came up. So the young man was my grandfather, who was about ten at the time. He was a messenger. And the fellow standing behind it was my great grandfather. So he in the beginning, these operators were all male, but eventually they, you know, hired female people. So many of my great aunt were telephone operators until the time that they closed the telephone exchange.

So all of them had to speak not only English, but like several dialects of Chinese. And they would have to know everybody's number by heart. And because a lot of people had the same name, they would have to know what their occupation was so they could find the right person, you know, to call so... they were pretty interesting in, you know, doing that business. And the building is still standing. But now it's like Bank of the West, or east, I think. But it's kind of a big tourist attraction because it was built on a kind of, you know, Oriental style architecture.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 22:00 >> 24:28

My parents both spoke Cantonese and I never learned Chinese. I could understand a little bit, but I think, you know, because after World War Two, you didn't want to associate yourself with being Asian, parents of, you know, my parents’ generation wanted the kids to, you know, speak English, and to be assimilated. So I never really learned Chinese.

But interestingly enough, my oldest daughter got really interested and she wanted to learn Cantonese. So actually during high school she ended up going to De Anza because she wanted to speak Cantonese and that was the only place that offered Cantonese. And so she went there and she became very involved with the Asian American community there because one of her teachers was Michael Chang, and so she became very active and ended up going to UCLA. And one of her majors was Asian American Studies. And at UCLA, she was actually very involved with the Nikkei Student Union. And you know, not Chinese Chinese American group, but she's pretty active in that group.

(Interviewer) Can you elaborate a little bit more about your feelings about when you learned all this history and why you continued to pursue it?

Yeah, I think it's actually been more recent only because, you know, once we had kids were really involved in kids and, you know, their activities. And then when I was teaching full time, it's like, I didn't really have time to be doing a lot of other things. But I think more so now that we're retired than always, things have cropped up relating to our family's history. You know, we've just become more and more involved. And basically we have time to pursue, you know, those things right now.

Timeframe 24:28 >> 26:13

(Interviewer—not in recording) Can you see the name of your elementary school, middle school and high school? And what was kind of like the make up like at the school? And what was your overall like K-through-12 experience?

Before we moved here, I went for a short time to Jean Parker Elementary School for a just part of kindergarten. Then we moved to San Mateo. I went to Beresford Elementary School for the last part of kindergarten, and then a new school was built called Meadow Heights. So in first grade through sixth grade, I went to Meadow Heights and then I went to Abbott Middle School for seventh and eighth grade. High school, I went to Hillsdale High School and thinking back it was like there weren't any Asian teachers at any of those schools that I went to, maybe Jean Parker, but I don't really remember back then, since it was in San Francisco. But none of the schools I went to in San Mateo had any Asian American teachers.

And then in my high school class, we only had six Asian Americans and then one Black student and no Hispanics that I can recall. And then the class above me had three Asian Americans, so there were very few Asian American students there at that time. And recently I went back for a high school reunion and toured the school. And it's interesting because now a large population is Hispanic and then much, you know, many more Asian people at the school. But at the time that I went to school, there really weren't very many.

Timeframe 26:13 >> 27:40

(Interviewer) Did you hang out with other Asian American students?

Well, I did, only because, like, as I say, the next-door neighbors and the daughter of the flower grower constitute, we were all the same age and we kind of hung out together. But I did belong to like a lot of... there was a YMCA group that I belong to during high school years, and I think I was the only Asian American in that group. But that was kind of a social group. And, you know, we had like a volleyball team. I played volleyball and I was always very involved in art. So I always did like all the decorations for the dances and made posters. And I don't know. I even did that, like in community during the summer I would volunteer for the Red Cross, and I remember making posters, and I also volunteered at this Crystal Springs Rehabilitation Center, and, you know, interacted with the patients that were there. So sometimes we do like I remember doing mosaic craft projects with them or I don't know, these ladies like to have their hair done, so they would like do their hair.

Timeframe 27:40 >> 30:28

(Interviewer) So a lot of volunteer work. So did you parents during this time ever take you back to Chinatown for any social events or…?

Oh, once in a while I really would visit my grandfather at the store, but I remember going there, but because he only spoke Chinese and I didn't speak, so I never really had much interaction with that grandfather. My other grandfather spoke English, so, you know, we sometimes visited him, but my father's family was kind of interesting because, he was eight when his mother died, and he was the oldest of three kids. So his sister was like four years younger than my uncle was only like two at the time. So because my father was the oldest, he lived with family members like his grandmother and great aunt that they all kind of lived like in this-- next to each other on Jackson Street. And my aunt and my younger, the younger son, were both in orphanages. So my aunt was interesting. There was a superintendent of the orphanage who I'm actually named after. Her name was Elsie Lucretia Kirk. And it's interesting cuz at time she was a single white woman, and she asked my grandfather if she could raise my aunt. So he did. My my grandfather wasn't really capable of raising the kids after his wife died. And anyway, so she ended up raising my aunt. My aunt, you know, ended up going to medical school. I think is pretty amazing story that this single woman would adopt this Chinese kid. And then the younger, the younger, son who was an orphanage over in Oakland, and my dad being the oldest would try would have to try to get them all together for Sunday family dinner. So he would have to, like, take the ferry and the train over to get my uncle and bring him back to San Francisco for dinner and then take him back again. Even as a young kid, he did that. But surprisingly, since they all were brought up separately, they were very close, you know, all through their whole lives.

Timeframe 30:28 >> 33:00

I don't, I don't recall ever being, you know, discriminated during school. And I think part of that was there were so few of us, it just like, I don't know, they didn't pay that much attention to us. And I was fairly involved with school activities at the time. I was like Vice President of my class one year and so I, I pretty much felt included and, but I did have some teachers that were pretty influential, like...Well, I was really into art.

And one year I remember there was a scheduling conflict, and I couldn't get into this art class. But the teacher let me take his class during his prep time. And so I was like the only person. But I mean, he he wasn't like, you know, there all the time I would just have projects and stuff I-- we worked on. But I thought that was pretty amazing that he did that. And that I had another interest in class, I guess my junior year, they had a collaborative English social studies class where there were three teachers, and they combined English social studies, and so they had kind of a larger group than usual. And at that time that was pretty innovative. You know, for a school situation. And those teachers, you know, just did a lot of really creative things and, you know, really kind of broadened my perspective on a lot of things. Like instead of teaching everything kind of separately, they would kind of combine things like you were assigned some time period in American history and you had to do a project where you incorporated everything like what went on culturally, socially, you know who the writers of that time were, kind of combining all that thing. And I kind of took that on when I became a teacher myself, you know, just not separating out, you know, just not separating different curricula, but kind of weaving things together.

Timeframe 33:00 >> 37:45

So I attended College of San Mateo Community College for two years after I graduated, and then I transferred to Berkeley where I graduated, and I majored in English, mostly because I always liked to read. And then I went to Fresno State for my credential. But one thing that kind of stuck to my mind was I tried to apply for the my teaching credential at Berkeley, and I remember being interviewed. And one of the people that were interviewing me, he said that I was too quiet and that I wouldn't be a good teacher. And I kind of felt like, you know, being loud doesn't necessarily make you a better teacher or not. I thought that was kind of, you know, stereotypical. But Ron had gone the year before and got a teaching credential at Fresno State. So, oh, actually, I was going to go to San Jose State to get my credential and I got accepted and I got a roommate and everything. But then when I went to get my classes, they said, oh, it would take me two years because I couldn't student teach until my second year. And at that time, I was engaged to Ron and we were going to get married the next year. I didn't really want to wait two years. So. Ron So let's go down to Fresno. And he drove me down to Fresno, talked to the head of the Education Department, and they were incredibly nice. And the Dean of the Education Department personally took me around to meet the professors. And so I ended up going there and, you know, got right credential in a year, and...

(Interviewer) What year was this?

So this was 1968.

(Interviewer) 1968. And did you always know that you wanted to teach or how did that come about?

I guess I did. I always liked working with kids.

(Interviewer) Did you have any idea of why they took an interest in you as a student? Was there anything that you felt you brought to the table for them that they wanted to either develop further or you were adding and bringing something to assist them?

Well, I don't know. I mean, I think the art teacher took an interest because I did a lot of things with art. Like I said, I always did all the dance decorations and, that kind of thing. And a lot of that was, you know, just volunteering to do this after school, you know.

(Interviewer) What was your year in Fresno like in terms of the teachers and the students? Were there defining moments?

No. I mean, I took classes and, you know, I was-- because I like to read what I found, I felt like the children's literature classes were really interesting. And then I did student teaching there, I student taught second grade and then I student taught in fifth grade. And I don't know, they're just kind of random memories of that. But I remember when I was teaching a fifth grade, there was this lady who came in and she brought a lung of her deceased husband because he had died of lung cancer, and she wanted to discourage kids from smoking. So she brings in this black lung in a bottle. And then, you know, and then he saw the healthy part and I often wonder how many kids in that class period ended up smoking. But their fifth-grade teacher also was kind of inspired. I remember that Robert Kennedy was coming in town, so we took the whole class and we just lined up on the sidewalk waiting for him to drive by, which I thought was pretty amazing.

Timeframe 37:45 >>

(Interviewer) we'll come back to your time at Berkeley. So you said you graduated. What was the year you graduated at Berkeley?

  1. I really wasn't very involved with activities when I was at Berkeley. It was too busy studying, but... well, one of my roommates is Doris Matsui, at that time, which was, I know, sort of interesting, I guess, what happened with her. But it wasn't wild with much except for like dorm activities at time because I stayed in the dorms for the two years that I was there.

(Interviewer) Do you want to talk more about Doris?

Well, at that time she was a senior, and she she was kind of funny. She never dated anybody more than twice. But then when she met Bob, she went out with them a second time and we all said, 'Oh, well, you know,' [Laughter]. And then she was really short. She was under five feet tall. And so she had this height requirement. And Bob just kind of made the cut cutoff [laughter], cause she didn't want short children and but at that time, you know, she wasn't politically active or anything anyway. So she was getting married to Bob but she was tiny and I just remember how she would have to tell him how much she weighed and if she was over like 90 pounds, she couldn't eat. And I said, 'Gosh,' I said, 'If he's doing this to you now, just think of how controlling you'll be when you get married to him.' So at one point they broke up, and he's from Sacramento. And so his parents came down to the dorm room because they were really upset, because they really liked Doris. And meanwhile they had gone up the Sacramento and ended up getting back together again.

But it was, but unfortunately, she kind of never kept up with friends, you know, from the past. Once she got, you know, married to Bob and they were into politics, she had room with my cousin the year before, which is how I got to room with her. And my cousin went to pharmacy school in San Francisco. And so... it was hard to get in the dorms at that time. So my cousin said, 'Oh, you know, my cousin Lucretia is coming to Berkeley and you want to room with her.' So that's how I got her as a roommate.

(Interviewer) Alright. So we hear about Doris's partnership story, but let’s hear about your partnership story, and how you met Ron, and how the sparks flew.

Oh, well, I first really actually met him in Fresno, and they used to have these Chinese student clubs from all over the California schools, and they would have these events. And it was kind of like a week long. They would have, you know, basketball tournaments, and they would have, you know, you know, bowling, just all kinds of activities and and the dance. So Ron had gone down to play basketball, and I went down with a girlfriend... and one of the people in our girls group knew the basketball guys from Ron's group. And so we met, but nothing happened. I mean, like I was waiting for him to ask me to this dance, but he didn't because all he had was basketball clothes that he brought. So nothing happened. But then we, we met again when I went to Berkeley at a dance and then, you know, we started going out. So he had asked me out for a date, but we hadn't gotten out yet. And my parents came over to take me out to dinner for my birthday. And so I said, 'Oh, I met this guy. He asked me out, but we haven't gotten out yet.' So we went to dinner in San Francisco. My dad wanted to go with Chinese restaurant, but it wasn't open. So he said, 'Oh, I know this other restaurant down these stairs on Clay Street.' So we went there and it was Ron's father's restaurant. And interestingly enough, Ron was sitting at the cash register reading a book, which was highly unusual for him to be studying. Anyway, my father was impressed. [Laughter]. That the studious guy was the one that asked me out. So that was, uh, how we met and been together for, what, 54 years.

Timeframe 43:23 >> 49:34

Yeah, I yeah, I would say that I was really close to my family, more to my father. My mother was is kind of-- she's really kind hearted, but she's on the surface very stern, and my dad was very social. He always liked to be out doing things, going places. My mother was kind of a homebody. She stayed home and knit and played mahjong. That was just her main interest. She she never really liked going places. But, you know, I was very close to my dad. And then so back in the days of my dating, my mother was very biased about, you know, like who I could date, because I remember when I was at CSM, a Caucasian asked me out and I came home and I told them, and my mother said, 'You can't go out with this guy.' So then I had to tell this guy I couldn't go out with him. But interestingly enough, in later years she really changed because my cousin from Houston met a Caucasian guy and and her mother was really adamant about her not marrying him. So she ended up marrying him in San Francisco. And my mother even called her sister and said, 'You know, it doesn't matter what race she is, it just matters what kind of person he is.' And I was astounded, she said that after, you know, what I had gone through, and then... even at one time I had dated a Japanese American and she wasn't that keen about that, although I did go out with him. But then my sister, who was nine years younger, by the time she was dating, she only dated Caucasian people. And, you know, well, her first marriage, she actually did marry Chinese, but it was, they divorced. And so now she's married to a Caucasian person. And my mother kind of just completely, you know, changed her views. So it was just kind of an interesting time period.

(Interviewer) Thank you. Okay. About children. When did you. How far in marriage?

So we were married 13 years before because I had a hard time getting pregnant. So my oldest daughter, Meredith, was born in 1981. And then my youngest daughter, Allison, was born in 1986. And at that time I was 40. And it was kind of like, if I would get pregnant, fine. But if I didn't, that was just going to have one kid. Well, currently, Meredith is in an MBA program at Berkeley, and she had spent nine years with her own business doing craft projects, using Japanese washi paper. And so she had spent a lot of time like going to Japan. And, you know, she actually got washi paper from these very small mom and pop kind of businesses. So her papers were pretty unusual. And so she was living in Hawaii at the time after she graduated UCLA, so the next day she flew over to Hawaii and we thought was-- and she had been working on a book about Frances Wai, who was a two sport athlete at UCLA, and he was there at the time of Jackie Robinson. And so she started to write a book about him. And we thought she was going over there to, you know, interview his brother and do more in the book. But she actually went because of a boyfriend, which so she broke up with after. But anyway, she ended up staying in Hawaii for nine years and developing this business.

And then my youngest daughter was kind of in the food related business. She graduated from UC Santa Cruz. And so for a while she was working in a restaurant. And then later on she had her own business making bagels and selling them at Farmer's Market at Fort Mason. And then she was in this business where she would connect restaurants to businesses that wanted to have lunches for their employees. And that was before COVID. So then once COVID hit, that market just dried up. You know, nobody was going to the offices. And so I don't think that business would be viable anymore. So during COVID, she started to learn coding and she wanted to get into, you know, web design, but finding it really hard to get a job because everybody wants somebody with experience and but not willing to give you that first job. So she's doing like I'm just helping Ron do this website with my family store for that same act to use. And then she's also doing website for friends, so she's hoping to use that towards her portfolio, hopefully, end up with a job.

Systems & Power Timeframe 49:34 >> 53:06

When I first started teaching, I taught fifth grade and we were living in Southern California at the time, and I started putting up an unusual school in Monterey Park. Half of the students came from middle class Monterey Park and the other half came from South San Gabriel, which was a really poor area, was mostly Hispanic people, and many of them didn't even have hot running water there. And... there were a lot of gangs that time. And these little kids would come to school and say, 'Oh, my brother was shot on the front lawn yesterday,' like it was nothing. And it was just, you know, to me, really shocking with and I remember the teachers at that time didn't really stay late after school, but if I had to stay late, the custodian would have to walk me to the parking lot because across the street was a park where these gangs hung out.

But there was such a disparity in the student body because of, you know, those two cities were vastly different, and they all came to the same school. And I never had less than 35 kids in the class and they had no resource help whatsoever. And it was ridiculous that they wanted me to teach Spanish and I never learned Spanish, but they watched some television show and there was a workbook. But the kids really needed to learn English who already spoke Spanish, and they didn't need to learn things like, you know, numbers and colors. But I remember the first year I taught, I had three kids who didn't even know the alphabet, and I would spend time after school, like counting paper clips with them because they didn't really even know, you know, numbers. And then on the other hand, I had kids that could read at 12th grade level. So it was really hard teaching situation at that time. But the Hispanic kids were just like incredibly grateful for anything you did for them. If you ever went on a field trip, they were just, you know, just so happy, which is a huge change, changed from when I came up and taught at Palo Alto, where kids kind of feel entitled and parents feel entitled.

And I remember back in that first year, one of the kids who couldn't read or anything, he would write these... what looked like beautiful papers. But then when you really look closely at it, they weren't even letters, you know, he just kind of tried to pretend and keep up with the rest of the kids. And at that time, the school board wouldn't allow you hold back any kids. So these kids just kept getting pushed up year after year, even though they were totally unprepared for the next grade. So that really stuck in my mind, my first teaching experience.

Timeframe 53:06 >> 57:22

And then we moved up here to the Bay Area and then I was looking for a teaching job. So in between that year, I spent a year working for the city of Palo Alto. And I first was in the utilities department just doing clerical work, and then I got a job working in the police department. And meanwhile I was still looking for a teaching job. So I would go to interviews on my lunch break and the job I had, the police department was just typing and I'm not that great of a typist. I had to work in this little room that had no windows, and I was on the side of the building where the police chief was. So nobody liked to come to that side of the building. So I had very little contact with people and I didn't even get to answer the telephone. So I kind of learned from that job that I really have to have a job with people because I would start taking my lunch breaks later and later. So by the time I went back, it was almost time to go home.

So I finally got a teaching job at Los Alamitos School District in West Menlo Park, and I had to give two week’s notice to the police department. So I was both teaching and working nights at the police department to do my two weeks. But that job, even though I didn't like it, kind of taught me a lot. And so ever since then I was teaching. And then in Los Alamitos, it was during Proposition 13, and it was a very small district. It only had four schools, and then they went down to two schools. And if you hadn't worked there 16 years at the time, you got laid off. So I was laid off. And then around that time Ron was involved in the printing business. So I helped him with that business and then Meredith came along. So I was a stay at home mom while she was young. And then when my youngest was in fifth grade, I went back to teaching full time and I taught at Walter Hayes School, which is where my kids went to school. So it felt like home to me because I already knew other teachers and families in that school.

In between when I was raising the kids though, I did do some volunteer things with the Junior Museum at the time. The city was going to close the museum because of funding, and they always kind of look first for, you know, kids programs. So I remember kid giving and protesting with the kids and from the city hall. And so we finally did get them to not close the museum. And then we became very involved. At the time. They relied on volunteers to help them build the exhibit. So we spent quite a few years and then I was like chairman of the volunteer group Friends of the Palo Alto Junior Museum, and we were able to get them designated as a nonprofit organization, and they had a very small paid staff. So we had a group of incredibly creative people that volunteered and we built, you know, really pretty amazing exhibits at the time. And then I also taught art classes there through the city until I went back to teaching full time.

Timeframe 57:22 >> 1:01;10

Oh, well, Ron. Well, he was going to UCLA. He was working on his PhD there at the time. And he also had a teaching job at a private school in Sherman Oaks, Buckley School. And then he had a job out in Redondo Beach, TRW. And so when he finished his degree... oh, I guess TRW was closing down that department, but they offered him a job to start up a lab in Falls Church, Virginia, and we had never been to the East Coast at all. And so I asked her and I said, 'Where is Falls Church, Virginia?' He says, 'Oh, I think it's coal mining town.' And so I said, 'Oh, I don't want to move there,' because he was would have to be there for five years to start up this lab. And eventually we knew we wanted to move to the Bay Area because that's where our families are. So you know, we didn't have a job or anything. We just moved away with what, like Palo Alto? So we moved to Palo Alto and started looking for a job. So I worked, I went to SRI, I get a job editing and they said, Oh, English majors are a dime a dozen. And he said, the only worse field is biophysics, which is Ron's field. And so they offered 350 a month. Even back then that was not very good pay. And so then I worked for the city for a while and there were a lot of people that were in the same boat. So there were tons of English majors that were doing clerical work at the city. But I told them I was looking for a teaching job and they were fine with it. They said, 'Oh, you could take any time off. You can go, you know, look for a job.' So I said, 'Okay, yeah.' So meanwhile I was getting paid, and I could still look for a teaching job. So Ron was out looking for jobs too, but he ended up finding a teaching job for himself. So he was teaching science actually in San Mateo for a middle school, and it took me, I guess, a year to get a teaching job.

So I took I was teaching fourth and fifth grade at Los Alamitos until I got laid off. And then when I went back to teaching in Palo Alto, they were just starting class size reduction. So they were hiring teachers. So I got a job teaching first grade and it turned out really well because my kid's first grade teacher was teaching there and she at the time had switched the third grade for a year. So she really helped me a lot. You know, giving me materials and everything. So I was there until I retired and the last four years I ended up teaching kindergarten, but most of the-- 16 years I taught first grade.

Students really need, you know, the freedom to explore. And a lot of it, too, at that young age is, you know, socializing, which is I would always tell my kids at the beginning of the year, you can learn stuff at home, but, you know, you're really here to learn how to get along with other people. So I think that was really important.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 1:01:10 >> 1:08:24

(Interviewer) And did you ever run into any issues? Were there other Asian American teachers in the school system with you, and did you ever face any discrimination that that that comes to mind?

Um, not so much in Palo Alto. I mean, like I said, the teacher that was helping me, she was Japanese American person and we had, I guess, two Japanese American teachers at that school... and one Black teacher.

Oh, so when we moved up to Palo Alto from Southern California, I guess I had read an article about AACI, and so we decided we would go to a meeting, you know, see what they were about. And I guess the person who really interacted with us most was Russ Powell at the time. And he really made us feel welcome. And then they were doing a lot of things with education and diversity and education at time, which interested us because we were both teachers. So that's how we kind of got involved in the beginning. And then early on we were involved with the textbook racism and textbook both at the local, you know, through the Palo Alto-- they had a council committee and then later on with the state. And at that time, we didn't have children yet, but we got involved. You know, Eimi Okano was one of our neighbors. She lived down the street from us, and she was involved in AACI at the time. So we did that. And then we also became involved with the diversity committee at the YWCA through Helen Tao, because she was very active with the Y.

And then AACI at the time was very interested in getting Asian Americans on boards and commissions into political offices. So I was on the Santa Clara County Human Relations Committee for six years in 1980 to 1986. And then I remember like campaigning for Mike Honda. I had Meredith in a backpack and was canvasing door to door. And then for a year AACI had received a grant from the state for Southeast Asian Refugee Social Adjustment Program. So I was director of that and we had members of the Southeast Asian community, Cambodians, Laotians, Vietnamese workers, who were the ones that actually dealt with clients to get them services. So that funding was just for a year. So I had done that for a year. There was still, you know, some resentment, I think, of the influx of Southeast Asians. So we kind of battled that. And then there are a number of community groups that were also trying to do the same thing and help. And then what kind of struck me was that like the workers that we had, like these people who were credible professionals back in their home country, and then yet they were kind of doing, you know, much lesser work. But they were but they were really hard working. I know, like, oh, one of the Cambodian worker used to be head of a whole agricultural department in Cambodia, you know, [inaudible] but I found that, you know, they're they're really hardworking and, you know, very dedicated to helping, you know, newly arrived people, you know, get settled in. And I think it was really important at that time to have a support system for the refugees.

(Interviewer) Did this happen simultaneously with your work with the Human Relations Committee?

Yeah, it overlapped some because it was, I think the refugee program was 83, 84, and it was on the Human Relations Commission from 1980 to 86 because they were also very involved with the refugee situation. You know, a lot of the work that the Human Relations Commission did and then I was kind of involved, you know, educational aspects of the Human Relations Commission. I remember touring schools in San Jose, and I was just struck by the fact that there were kind of low expectations. So when we visited some high school, I remember we were out on a Friday visiting and there were hardly any kids at school. And the staff people kind of just said, 'Oh, it's Friday, they're just out at the beach.' And I was just kind of shocked that they would, you know, condone that. And when these kids needed to be in school and, you know, obviously weren't there learning if they were at the beach.

(Interviewer) In your human relations committee, what would you say is that some of the most impactful work that you that the committee completed?

Yeah I, I don't recall a lot of details about in other cases that were on, but I know at one point they also wanted to get rid of the director, Jim McEntee, and he was such an incredible person, you know, who is a former priest. And he just did so much for, you know, disenfranchise people. And so I know we spoke to the supervisor at the time and we said, you know, in reality, they're saving money, not firing Jim because he did so much. That would have made them have to spend a lot more money to deal with problems that, you know, would be created if he wasn't there to diffuse them.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 1:08:24 >> 1:12:09

(Interviewer) Can you talk a little bit about some of the discrimination cases that you were involved with or remember when you were participating in the AACI?

Yeah. Well, I remember there was a lot going over at Stanford University. I think it was a janitors who were protesting because they felt discriminated. And then there was also a case that actually my uncle was involved in. He was a doctor at the V.A. in Martinez. And there was this guy, Jiokas, who was blatantly racist and, you know, would berate my uncle and, you know, call out names during staff meetings. And just and so surprisingly, because my uncle was a very mild-mannered person, he just had had enough. And so he filed suit against him. And in the end, all he wanted was an apology, which he finally did. But to me, the guy should have been ousted from his position. But I know AACI was involved in that, you know, writing letters and, you know, supporting my uncle's case. And the probably were of the ones that, you know, I don't recall the details of.

You know, so we were very involved in educational aspects. Besides the textbooks, I know we put on a number of exhibits about, you know, Asian American history and then we did some at De Anza and Foothill, and Stanford, and the Y had different presentations. So we put together those exhibits trying to, you know, educate the community about Asian Americans. I remember we doing a number of fairs. I remember one time we had to make all these lumpias at the fair, but nobody at that time knew how to make the lumpias at all. We just did it. And we had art fairs, you know, different vendors. And then because Ron had been in the printing business, he got Kamifuji to design this mask. And so we sold those, you know, as a fundraiser. And then later on we commissioned Ruth Azawa to design a sculpture, and we had planned on awarding this Asian American Freedom Award. You know, it's an annual thing, but actually we only did one year. So some of those sculptures are also sold, you know, to various people. And unfortunately, we couldn't afford to buy one. But anyway, so the first recipient was I.M. Pei, the architect. And so his son came out to receive the award. And we saw some pictures of of them.

Timeframe 1:12:09 >> 1:13:36

The Junior Museum, remember, was, you know, right in our neighborhood. And I know like my daughter Meredith. I mean, at some point she went there like every day it was like, you know, a very community-oriented center and it was a small-scale zoo. So, you know, kids enjoyed it, and they had interactive, you know, exhibits. And it was I felt it was important that, you know, maintain things for children in the city. You know, they have one of the few cities that has a children's library, and they have a children's theater group. But at some point in time, because of budget, they're always on the chopping block. And so, you know, I just felt strongly that, you know, they should maintain programs for children, even though they don't have much of a voice. So really, adults have to speak up for them. And then both of my girls were in brownies and Girl Scouts. So they were involved, you know, being a Brownie Girl Scout leader with them. So families are very important. So, you know, we just felt we should do things to support our kids.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 1:13:36 >> 1:17:50

(Interviewer) Did you take on the identity of Asian American, or did you identify more as a Chinese American? And how did that become a priority in your life? And how did you teach that to your children?

Well, I guess teaching by example things that we were involved... and I think my older daughter, Meredith, who's one that ended up being an Asian American studies student, it just, sort of... she saw, you know, the kinds of things that we're doing. Like Vickie (interviewer) admits, she was like the AACI baby. So after she was born, she you know, we bring her to all the meetings and so she kind of grew up, you know, just being immersed with with all that was going on and more so than the younger daughter who, at that, by that time, we weren't so involved. So she didn't see as much of that or, you know, interact as much personally with that. So I think we identify more as Asian American rather than Chinese American, although, you know, of course, Chinese American, too. But, you know, so much in history has been similar to all different Asian ethnic groups. So I think it's kind of a broader thing. And I think Meredith felt that too, because, you know, she was really involved with the Nikkei Student Union at UCLA, which, you know, some people were kind of surprised at that, you know, I think it's more of a Pan-Asian issue for many things.

And I think people have to support each other. I just think it's important to, you know, stand up for issues you believe in and, you know, we sit back and don't do anything. You know, you're not going to get any place. I mean, I think it's important for the larger community to see, you know, what the diverse community supports.

I think in the back of my mind, even like how my dad acquired this house, you know, just always back there, that there was something that was not equitable. Even when we first bought our first house and Palo Alto, in the deed was, you know, clause saying that they shouldn't sell to Asian Americans. You know, because, you know, they didn't adhere to those deeds, but they're still written in the deeds for, you know, a lot of the housing, and people even in Palo Alto, when we moved there in 1972 and there was discrimination even that late in time because one of the neighbors we had in back of us, Calvin Mac, he was an art teacher at Gunn High School. And he was telling us that when they first moved in the neighborhood, I mean, people would, you know, dump dog poop on their lawn. And I mean, you know, he even back when he I'm not sure when he moved into that house, but it was probably the late sixties or so. Still, things are going on. And then now it seems almost worse with all this anti-Asian hate crimes going on that people are afraid of minority groups taking over, you know, politically and just I don't know, it just seems even worse. You know, coming involved with AACI and seeing all the issues that came before that group, you just knew that there were a lot of things going on, you know, that needed to be dealt with and not ignored.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 1:17:50 >> 1:21:33

(Interviewer) Do you remember any particular mentors that kind of influenced, you?

No, probably other than my father. He was always fair minded that, you know, he never, ever said anything bad about anybody. You know, he was very well-liked, and he was quiet, you know, but I don't know, he still kind of, you know, got his message across to people, you know, being fair and honest.

(Interviewer) When you when you think about anti-Asian hate, are there still issues that you would like to see addressed? And what do you think would be the best approach?

Oh, it's hard to say. It just seems like people are more overt and blatant about being racist then I don't know. The all these incidents where, you know, just innocent people are shoved in the street and attacked and all, it's hard to fathom how, I guess, civilized behavior just seemed to be going downhill in general. You know, just all blatant lies, you know, politically, and and kind of all attribute to that people don't feel any sort of inner moral compass to, you know, not overtly express their feelings or as before, I think people at least kind of kept it in side them.

(Interviewer) When, when there was a rise happening in 2020. Did that impact you in Ron, in your daughters? Was that something that you talked about as a family or were concerned about during the pandemic?

Oh, certainly aware of it. I don't know. Ron did some things like he bought all these personal alarms, and he gave them out to like the San Jose Asian community and Oakland, you know, just a small gesture. He just kind of felt helpless and not being able to do something, but I think more education, too. I mean, there's still people who deny like the internment camps and, you know, just like with other people denying the Holocaust, I mean, it just seems incredible. But, you know, with all the evidence that you could show through photographs and, you know, whatever, that these things really happened, it's hard to fathom that people could still be in denial. So I think it's important to keep those issues up front so the general public is, you know, aware and unfortunately still, you know, like U.S. history textbooks really cover very little of things that happen to minority groups.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 1:21:33 >> end

(Interviewer) How would you define activism?

Well, I think just being aware of issues and things that are happening in your community and trying to do something about it, you know, speaking up, you know, making people aware of issues, how it impacts communities. I think it's important for people to know what happened in the past. And then I can case of the my grandfather's store, how we really use that to help other people in the community, like making those 50 people partners in the store, even though, you know, they weren't, I guess in a way, that's how Chinese family associations started with just being there for newcomers to be able to help them in a way that was true with AACI. You know, refugee social justice program was just helping newcomers integrate and get services. So I think it's, you know, just helpful for people to know and to see what happened in the past, like with the Chinese Exclusion Act and with the internment camps, that they're aware that those things even happened that, you know, so hopefully, you know, won't happen again. But unfortunately, with other ethnic groups, it's just, you know.