~ Visit the official JAMsj website ~
AAPI & Japanese American Museum of San Jose
Digital Archive

PJ Hirabayashi

Date: January 31, 2023
 Interviewer: Yvonne Kwan, Ellina Yin, and Vickie Taketa
 Interviewee: PJ Hirabayashi (1950 - )

Patti Jo "PJ" Hirabayashi is one of the pioneers of the North American Taiko movement and a founding student in the movement of Asian American Studies in the late-1960s. She is the founder of TaikoPeace, President of Kodo Arts Sphere America (KASA), and co-founder of Creatives for Compassionate Communities-a grassroots art-ivist group originating in San Jose, California. She is also the Artistic Director Emeritus and charter member of San Jose Taiko, the third taiko group to form in the United States. Her signature composition, "Ei Ja Nai Ka", is a celebration of immigrant life expressed in taiko drumming, dance, and voice that continues to be performed around the world.

Transcript of PJ Hirabayashi

Click on any section of the transcript to jump directly to that segment of the video. This feature lets you quickly access the content you're interested in without the need to manually search through the entire video. You can also click on the tick below each transcript to expand the text and read the full content without playing that segment of the video.

Timeframe 0:00 >> 2:16

My name is Patty Joe Nakanishi at birth, but now I go by P.J. Hirabayashi. My date of birth is May 18, 1950. Ross, California. Yes, I only have one older brother and he is five years older than I.

(Interviewer) And is he in the local area as well?

Lives in Fremont. Okay.

(Interviewer) And what's your father's name and place of birth?

Joe Nakanishi. San Luis Obispo, California.

(Interviewer) And do you know his approximate date of birth?

My dad was a mechanical engineer and had several positions, like at Lawrence Radiation Laboratory. And in Mariana Islands in Micronesia, basically as an engineer and taking care of projects like that. He started off as a carpenter and also worked on cameras and fixing cameras. In fact, Ansel Adams camera in San Francisco. He I think he had taken some classes at San Luis Obispo and then the war came and so he didn't finish. My mother's name at birth is Alice Watanabe, and she was born in Calexico, California, on the border of California and Mexico. Her birth date is February 17th, 1925. She didn't go through any college, but she, as we were growing up, was working at the hospital laboratory as a histology as a tissue technician preparing slides with specimens on slides.

Systems & Power Timeframe 2:16 >> 5:28

It was my parents met in Minneapolis, Minnesota. My father was actually incarcerated at Poston, Arizona, as well as my mother and her family, but they didn't know each other. So my father, I think after a while he was able to go and do farm beets up in the Midwest. So he didn't stay in camp. And so my mother was sponsored by a Jewish lawyer in Minneapolis who actually sponsored her older sister who had gone to UCLA. And her her professor told her sister, you're not going into camp. I'm sending you off to Minneapolis to live with my sister. So my Auntie Clara Aoki had gone to Minneapolis and she was there and was able to get the same lawyer to get my mom out. After about nine months being in camp. So my mom finished her junior year in high school in Minneapolis and then and then graduated and then maybe about I don't know exactly what brought them together, but they met up there.

(Interviewer) And so for your mother's side of the family still in camp at the time while she and her sister were over in Minneapolis.

Yes.

(Interviewer) And did you ever hear about these camp experiences from either side of your father side or of your mother's side?

It was not really brought out at all as we were growing up. You know, at the dinner table, they would make reference to camp. And whenever I would hear camp, I thought of summer camp. And they didn't really talk too much about it because they weren't in camp for that long. They were able to get out and pursue, you know, life outside the camp. My mom never complains about any situation. And so that that continues to this day. You know, she doesn't really have a memory of exactly what happened in camp. Both of my grandparents were incarcerated in Poston, Arizona.

(Interviewer) And while you were growing up, did you ever live with them or speak with them about these experiences at all?

Not really. Not no. I didn't really learn about the camp experience until I after I graduated from high school, it was like my first year in college at Cal State Hayward that I learned about, What? That's an injustice. I never learned about in school. So I became angry and that kind of help helped. And it fueled me to really get into my identity.

Timeframe 5:28 >> 7:11

Let me just explain that while I was in at Hayward, I was taking predominantly one of the first Asian American studies classes, and it was having me explore my identity and that's perhaps when I first started to question. My parents were around at that time, but shortly after that they went to Saipan, the Micronesia Islands, and there wasn't a current of needing to capture those histories at that time. Unfortunately.

(Interviewer) Why did your grandparents decide to immigrate to the US?

For my grandfather, I think he, both grandfathers, I think they didn't want to get conscripted into at that time, was it the Russian U.S. war? And also just to have an opportunity to make money, possibly to send back to the family. On my father, my excuse me, on my mother's side, the first job that my grandpa had was a bell ringer for a Catholic church. He learned English by reading the Bible, and my father's father worked for the Southern Pacific Railroad in San Luis Obispo.

(Interviewer) And how did they meet their wives?

They were picture brides.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 7:11 >> 9:07

I think it was through the Asian American studies experience that I was trying starting to connect the dots. You know, and and perhaps they made reference just like camp and maybe Picture Bride. At that time, my mind was maybe too young to understand. It's only upon personal reflection that I can see how I was taught to not rock the boat, not make waves. Do not put yourself out there to assert yourself. Do not boast. You know, it's like my parents. Basically, my mom was telling me to just be quiet and that's how I went through school. Is being quiet and not being articulate to express what I was feeling. And I think that might be cultural, but I think my mother in particular was protecting both my brother and myself. You know, like, don't stand out. Yeah. Just be behind the scene.

(Interviewer) What do you think she learned about being standing up? What happens when you stand out?

You go [motions to being smashed down]. She feels that, you know, you're not really respecting the situation and that just to be quiet, you know, is the safer place to be. I think, you know, in terms of being incarcerated, she didn't want us to speak out. And that I have always attributed that to like, just don't rock the boat.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 9:07 >> 11:12

The characteristics of my hometown. Well, I loved where my family actually raised us, and it was like three acres was a lot of trees. I was a tomboy. I climbed the trees. I try to keep up with my older brother, you know? So there was that kind of almost, yeah, that's who I am as a young kid, up until five or five years old. And then going to school was the new experience of like, What are you? There were no other Asians. Maybe another one and a half. And yeah, being right after the war, 1945, 1950 and ten years later, I was in kindergarten. 1955. I think there was residual. This is only after thinking back, you know, that I remember a lot of pain. I remember of feeling even more withdrawn because I was not being picked to join the rest of the students, you know, and being called out as being different and even taunted, Ching-Chong Chinamen, you know, And that separation, you know, I couldn't even express to to my my parents, I didn't know how to articulate that. The first day of school, it was like, why do you have a flat nose? And I didn't even know what the features of my face. Right. And I remember that first day going home, my mom could feel something was wrong. And she was not able to pull that out of me because I didn't know how to articulate what I was feeling.

Timeframe 11:12 >> 14:13

I started to play with my next-door neighbor who was like an acre away. And interestingly, yeah, her mother and father were married. She was a Japanese war bride, and he was airforce American, and they had two kids. And my best friend, Judy, she was a year older, was my best friend. She came knocking at the door and here my mother opens the door, and she sees this blond, blue eyed kid speaking Japanese. What? And so, of course, that was a friendship. That was made for several years, you know, between her parents and my parents. And of course, I grew up with Judy as being my best friend. So she was preparing me for entry into school. And she said, you better learn how to read this. You know what they're going to do if you can't read this, they're going to make you stand up in front of the classroom and they're going to pull your panties down. separation for myself. I was born in Ross. Oh, that was the Ross Hospital, which is no longer there. But yeah, I was actually growing up in San Rafael, and that's just a stone's throw from the hospital. But, well, what it was like? It was like I felt very, you know, safe with growing up in amongst the the trees. And I felt like I, I was very connected to nature, you know, making mud pies and all that. But the experience of going to school really removed me from that connection to the earth. And what further made it more separate is that at age seven, my parents moved to Fremont, California, and in a track home, no trees. And it was a different playground for me that I didn't realize that made me a lot more insular.

(Interviewer) PJ, how long did you stay at your first that first kindergarten, first grade, second grade?

Up until second grade, and then moved to Fremont for my third grade.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 14:13 >> 16:47

As I'm thinking back to my school experience, it's like being constricted to follow rules and therefore I felt like my body was becoming smaller, you know, just, just mind the rules because my third-grade teacher would go around, you know, and take a ruler on the on the hands. I don't think there was any kind of, you know, that not being legal at that time. But, you know, I really felt that it was being. Yeah. Steered to obey.

(Interviewer) And as you moved to San Rafael and then to Fremont, did did you was the adaptation the same?

It was harder because I didn't realize and as I'm reflecting now, that there was a lot of yeah, embodiment issues and the feelings of feeling less than and being in schools where there were hardly any other Asians still like I could not represent when teachers would say, So what do you do at home? Do you what do you eat? You know, making it already like, do you eat that kind of food and used chopsticks? You know, yes, we do. But it was like, yeah, we also use forks, you know, and well, what do they do in your country? It's like I never really experienced like I assume that they were referring to because you're Japanese. What do the Japanese do? And I felt at a loss because I didn't understand the Japanese culture I could not represent, you know, And then it was that along with, you know, I'm going to kind of go into junior high when we talk about the war, you know, it seemed like the teacher would always talk about World War Two and the enemy and look like this and look at me that he might not have. But I felt like he was, you know, yeah. Your people.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 16:47 >> 18:57

(Interviewer) When you moved to Fremont, did you stay there until high school or did you move to another move again?

Yeah, I went to high school in Fremont. All through my school, I knew I was different. And like I said, I, I didn't know how to represent that Japanese part and to be in, you know, to be called out, you know, there was an inferiority complex. You know, it's like feeling that I would never be accepted in what I wanted to pursue, like, oh, friends telling me, why don't you try out for cheerleader, you know? And I remember going, Yeah, but I don't think there's ever been a Japanese cheerleader. You know, I went through my older brother's yearbooks and, you know, they’ve all been white. I go, I'll never be picked, you know. So there was this inferiority complex of like not being picked and also having crushes on white, you know, students and going, well, they'll never pick me, you know, they'll never see me. So there was that complex. It never occurred to me that, well, growing up, and not until I took Asian American studies classes, where then there was like the stereotypes, like, Oh yeah, absolutely. You know, So through taking these classes and it made me question my own, you know, growing up experience and going, Wow, you know, you were really far to the right. You know, you're just trying to just fit in. Well, knowing that I'll never be accepted. That's what it felt like.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 18:57 >> 22:55

(Interviewer) What did you and your family do during vacations and weekends?

Oh, we would go out to camp, and I think that was kind of the extension also like freedom, feeling good to to know how to be comfortable in water, to feel like, oh, this feels refreshing. And I think that's what I really needed not knowing it then that, you know, being in the tract home and I wasn't going to get there. So I would do that. My, my mother actually really persuaded me, seeing how insular I was from kindergarten. You need to have more poise. You need to be more confident. You should take dance lessons. So the dancing started at age five to age 14. And whether it made me more confident or not, I can't say. But it developed kind of strict of a streak of of creativity, you know. And absolutely, it was like I could not have to talk. I could just do through my body. I was still taking dancing, you know, up until 14. I was taking piano lessons. I was taking roller skating, arena dance figure skating. My mother tried to keep me occupied after school activities ,and I would make friends who with people that I would take these classes with and and yeah, it's mostly through the dance classes.

And then also going to, gosh, oh, so in high school, then the clubs, the the Spanish club, the German club, the AFS club, which is this, you know something federations blah blah of have this American Federation of Students. That's right. So we had a foreign student exchange student live with us from France in my junior year in my senior year. So there it came to a time for time management because I did make the cheerleading squad, and so then all my other piano classes and dance classes went to the side and that I was starting to attend football games and basketball games and cheerleading. And there was a different network of friends being developed. And so I could see clearly that those were the rah rah kids. I was part of the rah rah kids, but I didn't really feel like I was totally with them. Then there was the nerdy kids, which are all my older friends were a part of, you know, with theater and writing and just kind of rowdy kids. So I kind of had I was always in the in between, you know, bringing these two different factions together. And I would either be rah rah or my nerdy friends.

Systems & Power Timeframe 22:55 >> 24:32

(Interviewer) Can you name the schools that you've attended so your elementary school in San Rafael and then Fremont and then your subsequent perhaps middle junior high and high school?

Short school in San Rafael, Irvington Elementary School and John M Horner Intermediate and Irvington High School. All of my teachers were, I think, equally. Wow, white men and women. Living in San Rafael, it was like very isolated. My parents would have Japanese American friends, of which we would have gatherings, you know, picnics. And it was like a very unreal, you know, living situation in my mind going, well, there's this this kind of people here. And yet outside I don't see anything else, only these special occasions. And then my parents would go to San Francisco Japantown to pick up food and stuff. But we were never affiliated with a Japanese church, Christian or Buddhist. My parents tried to have my brother experience learning Japanese, but he hated it. So he didn’t last for more than a year.

Timeframe 24:32 >> 26:38

(Interviewer) Was there an expectation for you then?

No, there wasn't. There was no expectation for me to learn Japanese.

(Interviewer) Did your parents speak Japanese?

My father was probably a lot more bilingual than my mother. My mother hesitates to actually speak it, but she can hear it and understand. I would say that my parents and family would occasionally come to like recitals for for dance, but not for high school games. My mother was wonderful seamstress. She would make a lot of my clothes when I was growing up. She would make all my, you know, fancy stuff in high school and and my father was extraordinarily artistic. He learned a lot of this. Perhaps he was naturally gifted. He read a lot. And in camp he learned how to carve, like a lot of those wooden, you know, bird pins. And he was I have samples of some of his work go. No way. You know, And he was also like a Boy Scout leader for my brother. And he would make those slides for neckerchiefs. Right. And they were really artistic because being a carpenter as well, I think he already knew how to, you know, be creative. I was not really looking at that as artistic. I didn't think of it being influenced because maybe it was I regarded that's what he did. It's something I couldn't do, you know, that's like too refined. I can't do that. So it was my own world of exploration, you know, to see what creativity is. And it was mostly through movement.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 26:38 >> 29:14

I think I was still pretty withdrawn in general going into the first year of high school. And it wasn't. It was testing the grounds of like, where can I fit in? And then the second year I actually joined, I was part the Letter Girls Squad to march with the marching band and it was very difficult because Irvington was a very long name. I was the shortest. I was one. And so when we were in pairs, our line looked like [verbal and hand expression]. So, you know, it was not a natural thing. This like I was always kind of condemning from, you know, from inside. This isn't enjoyable yet. It was making me a little bit more comfortable to be out with other people intermingling, expanding my spheres of potential influence. Yeah, so that was my sophomore year.

(Interviewer) So to you it wasn't quite enjoyable, but yet you persisted. Why was that the case?

Because there were other friends in that line that we became very close and we would be complaining a lot, but there was something to be proud about. We are represented in the school, you know, and that was the case. Like that was sophomore, junior and senior year. I became a yell leader, cheerleader, and that was another, you know, gateway to expanding my maybe self-confidence. I still didn't know who I was as JA, Japanese American, but more accepted.

(Interviewer) When you move from San Rafael to Fremont, were there are more Asian Americans at the time, or was the racial makeup still pretty homogeneous?

Pretty much mostly white. Only two doors from us was a family from Hawaii. So they were of mixed Chinese and white race.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 29:14 >> 33:07

Did I ever engage differently? Yes, I would say I would not really say I ever engaged in junior high because that was the teachers, you know, the teacher that would tell me or talk about World War Two and look at me, you know, also, it's really interesting. Now you're making me reflect because in junior high in my history class, my teacher would like I said, I have this habit of talking with my hands. And so the articulation to even participate in conversation or discussions in class was really hard for me. I never felt confident. The words would never come out, so I would always use my hands, you know, like to fill in the gaps or to pull the words out. And he would say, “Could you sit on your hands, please?” And there was just something there that just kind of like I couldn't talk, you know, I needed my hands for expression.

So again, it was not something that I realized what was going on at that time. It's like something's wrong with me. Oh, my God, I have to sit on my hands, you know? So it's only realizing much later that I do need to express myself holistically and that what he was doing was like preventing me to feel confident about expressing myself. I would say also what's interesting is that to learn about John F Kennedy, you know, in junior high I was in that history class, I was standing up, we were talking, we were each each student had to get up and by memory, recite the preamble of the Constitution. I was right in the middle of reciting that. When the staff from the office came in and said John F Kennedy was just killed. Silence. And there was just something there because I had to stand up and it's like, what am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to do? And it was like not being not registering even the content of like somebody was murdered, you know, as like what was going through my head is like, what am I supposed to do? You know, should I sit down, should still stand up. That's what was going through my body and like, oh, gosh, that sounds horrible. That's about all that I really was processing in this mind. And then sitting down and going, Wow, I never finished that preamble. I would say what I felt comfortable about was after school, because again, it was the dance that kind of allowed me to find a source of expression, personal expression, but always returning to that classroom was never comfortable. I would say it was the junior high experience that I really felt. As I recall, my gaze was always looking down as I was walking down the halls. I never felt like I could really feel open.

Timeframe 33:07 >> 35:19

(Interviewer) Do you remember a time that shifted or changed for you?

It was in high school. I mean, it took that long, actually. And I would say, you know, being a little girl, then being a, you know, a cheerleader got me out of that. You know, I was able to lift myself because I had to cheerlead in front of all these people and get them to be motivated. You know, I think that embodiment, you know, expression and showing myself was something that made me more confident. And now they're making me recall in my senior year, we would have like kind of like the seniors would do certain type of shows in front of the whole student body, and you got to do whatever you want. And so another cheerleader and myself, we were both seniors. We actually danced in leotards in front of the whole school. I've never danced like that at all in front of anybody. And but it was expression, you know, and I think it was become visible. And I think the visibility kind of uplifted me when my German teacher, who was always encouraging me because you really should go into dance. You're really good. You know, I think I never heard validation before. And so I yeah, I agree. Yeah. But my parents, I'm sure that I would not pursue dance. I have no clue what I want to do when I, you know, graduate from high school. But it was I just remember that was very heartwarming and very encouraging to hear that.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 35:19 >> 43:12

[I think I tried to get into] Berkeley and Santa Cruz. I really want to get into Santa Cruz, but was rejected and going, Oh, that was really because I wanted to be in the, you know, amongst trees. Sounds very liberal education. I really wanted that. But it was like, okay, I'll start off here at Cal State Hayward. It was a commuter college, so I was commuting. And so that also was another thing about I gotta drive myself. I never drove by myself on the freeway. So, you know, the the layers of, you know, growing up was happening as I was pursuing my college experience.

(Interviewer) How did you choose your major or did you choose it later on?

I was actually thinking about how do I make money? And I did pretty well in math in high school. I didn't do too well in trig trigonometry, but, you know, algebra geometry was like, Ooh, I really identify with this. And then from there it's like, oh, well, I can skip over that part, but I think I'll pursue math and so that I can get into computers. So it was computer science that I thought I would try to get a, a degree in math because I could get something that can pay for a career. But it wasn't like I want to do that.

(Interviewer) So you would come to transfer, right? To was it Berkeley?

I transferred from Hayward to Berkeley. Yes.

(Interviewer) So why why that decision?

So it was all during campus activity. It was the activism of antiwar movement, anti-Vietnam War. And that's what kind of got me to really commit to what is morality, what is, you know, injustice seen of the young men, students being drafted, you know, and I had a lot of friends. I had several friends that actually died in the war. And they they were just graduated from high school, you know, So that kind of got me to think about, you know, though, I'm against the war. I was with the antiwar movement, with white students and in pursuit of being against the war and seeing a contingent of Asian students walking this way going, I look like them, but I'm with them, you know. So there was kind of like this split of like, we're against the same thing. But I don't quite understand yet. You know, how I feel. I should be over there then. It was the first year in at at Hayward that I actually took judo and another activist student for Asian American studies got me to meet her at the Asian American Studies office. And they were very liberal at that time.

Louie Lee was in charge as he was the coordinator of Asian American studies at that time. He would be barefoot, wear cutoffs, and he had a beard, you know, and he was always smoking. And he would stomp out his cigarettes with his toes, you know, je was like, keuuu. So he was a little, like, intimidating. But here I'm to meet my friend. She said, Could you help me with my homework? You know, and please meet me at Asian American Studies office. And I come and she's not there. I sit down and waiting for her. And here's Louie Lee. Hey, could you file this away for me in the files over there? Gosh, what do I doing? So I was immediately kind of, like, incorporated into tasks helping out at Asian American studies. And therefore, after that and Asian American studies classes and learning more, it's going I'm getting more angry. Oh, they're now they're talking about we have to go to the president and, you know, ask that you give us more money. Hey, Louie’s like, come with me. We're going to go see the President. And you go to its office and here's Louie Lee. I demand that you give us enough money to continue our program. And there was something that was becoming more volatile for him. What he was hearing, he says, I'm going to pick up this chair right now and I am expressing how angry I am. I'm going to throw this chair now, chuuu. I'm like, what am I doing here?

I can feel this fear, but inside I'm going, Yeah, all right. There was this resistance arising from inside, and "am I not really experiencing this?" It was kind of surrealistic, you know, I'm here with Louie Lee, this intimidating, intimidating guy, and yet I think that was also a part of the confidence rising inside of, like, finding my Asian American identity because this is how I learned about camp incarceration and why I became angry. Why didn't I know about this through school? Why didn't I, why don't we know more people know about this? That that that's what really fueled me to say, yeah, we really need ethnic studies, Asian American studies. And from Hayward, it was like, I want to go to Berkeley because that was my choice to go to either Santa Cruz or Berkeley, and that was where the movement was really going on People's Park. It was like also the establishment of ethnic studies. And I was really attracted to how Asian American studies at that time was also providing community experience to go to learn as much as you can so you can return back to your communities and be of service. Serve the people, power to the people, that those were. What we really what I really felt and what we were being driven as students at that time. So I became interested to pursue Asian American Studies at Berkeley. Okay.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 43:12 >> 46:03

I would say that it was students becoming very much a part of moving the direction of why it's so important for Asian American studies to be taught and then further being of service going into the community. This is where the war is really happening. It's not only happening in Vietnam; the war is happening in our backyard. This is where we have to go. And serve the people. For me, we were encouraged to I was encouraged to sign up for community classes in which I got credit to be out in the field and get credit for working on a project called the Issei Project. So it was for building services for seniors of issei. There were a lot of angry students that were actually very, very kind to the people in the community and how to elevate services to let me just take like for the issei for the seniors, how can they access federal services that they never were encouraged to access because of language and because of the culture of saying we don't need that kind of support? So this was the beginning of like the senior service projects that were happening all around the Bay Area at San Francisco State, at East Bay, at San Jose, that we were starting to see like students going out into the community because we were also communicating amongst campuses and and doing combined programs so that we weren't just isolated, but we were encouraging and building and taking experiences and learning from each other, like how do we build community? And that's what I really felt activated and learned about from from Asian [American] studies.

Timeframe 46:03 >> 46:36

Arts and dance kind of went doooonk? I didn't have I wasn't doing anything, if anything, that started to evolve at that time was like martial arts, white rane. So feeling movement. I was also had taken at Cal State, Hayward Judo. So there was something there that I was still interested in, but I wasn't really perpetuating and studying all that time.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 46:36 >> 50:20

Yes, I would say that I was still trying to figure out all through my life up until Asian American studies is like, who am I as Japanese again? Like, I can't represent what Japanese is. I didn't quite understand what it meant to be Japanese American. Even at that time. It was like, it's so hard for me to grasp. Yes, I know. I'm a I'm American, but this face is really kind of defining who I am. And until the antiwar movement and seeing just across, you know, across the field of like, oh, Asians at that time, they're mostly, you know, Chinese and Japanese and maybe Korean. But the the newer immigrants from Asia had not quite come yet. So there was a solidarity. And and also Filipino the solidarity of that and feeling this affinity to not separate by saying I don't need to define myself with Japanese because I can't but Asian. I feel more solidarity. I feel a lot more power. I feel kind of like in the embrace that we were creating a culture of, I'll say, even vitality, a culture of understanding we were trying to find and explore and while trying to define ourselves. And that was great. It was based on an issue of being against the war. It was like working in Asian American communities that really had me understand that our struggles were very common. I'd like to say that my first ethnic studies classes at at Berkeley was taught by Harry Edwards and he would provide all this reading material that was very sparse at that time.

But it was like, okay, I understand. And people of color and the struggles of what has happened here in America, you know, being anti-establishment, you know, because that's growing that uplift and the power to make us more visible, to actually put ourselves on the line to to enter that realm of like the holistic humanity, you know, that I really felt that it wasn't just being a Japanese American, it wasn't just being Asian American. But whoa, now I'm understanding through these new books or what Harry Edwards was teaching going, Yeah, I don't want to be blind anymore. I want to be more aware of like, how can I be a change agent? How can I change what has already been established, what the systemic injustices, what was what really fueled me becoming an Asian American and seeing the larger movement of happen in other cultural communities.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 50:20 >> 52:29

The decision to move just to Japan was because I was working in the community addressing our seniors, the Issei, even though my grandparents had passed. It's like I never knew my grandparents. I never was able to speak to them in Japanese. And there was just something there that I really needed to access going. I need to experience going to Japan, learn the language, learn about the culture. And I had two other friends that were graduating from San Jose State and San Francisco State and myself from Berkeley that we decided for three young sansei women to go to Japan and experience. We just know that we want to go there to live. We don't know exactly what we're going to do, but yeah, we want to get there. So that's what that was all about. It was like going to Japan and a year later I would say that I knew I was not from Japan, I could not represent Japan, and I knew that's not who I was. I'm not Japanese, I'm Japanese American, but I don't quite understand and understand that I feel marginal all these years of growing up in America. And so experiencing like, okay, I'm not accepted here in America and then going to Japan. And while they're not, those aren't my people. I have gone to Japan because I want to learn about my people. Well, they are really my people. So realizing after that experience, I was like, Whoa, what was that all about? Which takes me into meeting other people at San Jose State. But anyway.

Systems & Power Timeframe 52:29 >> 56:59

So, okay, I had all these great friends. Roy [Hirabayashi, PJ’s husband] was just a friend while I was in Japan. But what was really great in Japan, I have to share this in incident, not incident, this experience I took to Japan, the first Asian American compilation called Yellow Pearl and their single pieces of paper, of poetry, of music, of art, visual art, you know. And I thought, I'm going to take this. So I want to share this with people in Japan. This is what I took over to as a as my tool to teach English. And one of my students happened to be a producer for a TV program, Nippon TV, Nippon Educational TV Network. And this producer was like a really heavy radical student during the heyday in the sixties. And for me to share the Japanese American experience with him in Japan through speaking English and Japanese, you know, was like very touching. It's like somebody is really listening, even though we're not really communicating all that well. But he understood the issues. And I said at one, you know, meeting, I just wish that more Japanese could know more about this Japanese American experience.

You know, the week later he goes, how about doing something on TV? And it became a project. I pulled in two other friends to appear on a morning show, morning show, 7:00 in the morning, mostly for housewives, getting their children and and husbands off to work, you know, but here we are. And they really wanted to the producers said we really want to surprise the viewers. You know in case when you come in Japanese face. But when we say good morning to you, we want you to answer in English and then we're going to respond. Woah. And so that's how I kind of opened up like, oh, this is fulfilling a dream, you know, to share in Japan, the Japanese American experience. And that was just very short, you know, 20 minutes long. But we were relying on people like Chris and Joanne's music, you know, that we played, and we were talking about Japanese incarceration. We're talking about our communities. And that's about all that we could talk about. So that was something that was very fulfilling, coming to have experience in Japan. And it was just like shortly before coming back home to the States.

(Interviewer) Did you know Chris and Joanne?

Yes, of course. Well, not intimately, but yes, they had come to all, you know, community celebrations and spoke, I mean, and sang their songs. I mean, what captivated me upon their their first singing, I was like, Oh my God, they're singing our stories. They're singing about me. And I never heard anything like that. So I was like, Yeah, these are our first folk singers of Asian American expression, you know? So anyway, yes, I didn't know them, just only knew them. Kind of casually became more intimate in in friendship with Nobuko [Joanne] over the years. But that's another chapter.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 56:59 >> 1:00:28

I have to say that I don't think I had any revelations. It's like I went there with an open slate, you know, and trying to learn the language. I realized like, Oh, wow, I was only learning baby words with my grandma and grandpa, you know? And this isn't really Japanese. And I had learned Spanish and German, you know, in junior high and high school that that was kind of like what I was falling back on. And the Japanese language when I was taking it at Cal State Hayward for a couple of years was really foreign for me. I mean, I would be laughing a lot in my seat because there was just so many humorous episodes that I felt like, wow, yeah, I know this is the language that I should know, but it's not coming to me that easily. So I think that's what I wanted to try to capture in Japan. But that was not to be experienced because in order to stay there I had to teach English. So I was not immersed into really learning very well the language, but it gave me a foundation because like, this is the language that at least I can get by talking to the Issei here, living in America because they spoke Japanese and English. And I can kind of like, you know, craft a way that we would communicate. And I was still, you know, involved in community service for Issei at that time, coming back home.

It was very complicated. The language is complex. It's like, you know, from the familiar to the very formal. And I can never find quite how to when to use what you know, at what time. But I will kind of go forward about coming back from Japan and feeling so much more like, I know more Japanese. And then I talk to my grandma and she starts cracking up because my Japanese is modern. It's modern Japanese, and she came from the Meiji era and so there was like all the different grammatical formations and even some words that I would say modern, like I can't even remember, like theater or bicycle, you know, in the modern, like if you go, oh, we call that something else. And I'm going, Oh, kind of marginal again, talking to my grandparents. I'm not getting like a full of tools to be able to mix with my own family, you know? But I'm still dedicated to serving the people, to doing community work. And yeah that's what the Japanese experience, Japan experience provided for me, that I'm not Japanese from Japan. And what is it that's going to make me feel Japanese American?

Timeframe 1:00:28 >> 1:05:48

So coming back from Japan with all this experience, I'm trying to think about going back to grad school and I'm thinking about going back to Berkeley, like for law or public policy. And then here is Roy saying, hey, you know, there's this job. They're looking for an Asian American actually looking for women, Asian American women to for minorities in planning. And why don't you apply for this? And I'm thinking, like, well, before I get into grad school, I better make some money. So he's telling me about this job here in San Jose. So I apply and I immediately get a response. Go. You are a perfect candidate for our program. This is not a job. It's a program is a graduate program. I'm going, what does that mean? It's called Minorities in Planning and why in my head what's planning? So this is urban and regional planning. Okay. What the heck is that? Well, I want the job. And so they're telling me, well, if you're interested in it, you know, you're the perfect candidate. I think you have to become a graduate student. And they had already closed like registration applications for the next incoming school year. But they were saying, well, and then along with Roy and his connections with Paul Sakamoto and Mike Honda ombudsman, and they were able to help get me into the grad program after, you know, registration was closed. I got through the back door, you know, and I passed getting into the urban and regional planning program, which they were only accepting like 15 people going, I wonder if I would even have a chance.

And I think, yeah, Mike Honda had something to do with that because he was also on the Planning Commission of San Jose and he was also an adviser to the urban and regional planning for that particular program that I was applying for what I thought was a job. And so it was an internship that lasted for two years, and that's how come I got my degree in urban planning. Then it came to what am I going to write my thesis on? I wrote about San Jose Japantown, and that was kind of like, I don't want our Japantown by that time I'm identifying as being a citizen of San Jose's Japantown. Okay, I've never felt this community spirit before that I now am feeling Japanese American community. It wasn't the same community that experience in Japan or any other communities as I was growing up. There was just something there that was a calling. And so along with the thesis on Japantown, it's like really became more committed to how to be a part of Japantown.

I have to say from my experience in the internship, I was placed into San Jose City Urban Planning Department, and what I saw there were individuals, as I would say, almost acting like God, people that were coming through to just even get a permit, you know, and somebody from the staff, you know, really giving these individuals bad time. I, I just felt that there was kind of this looking down on people. And I'm like, you know, if this is urban planning, I don't like it. And so I felt that my degree was to be experienced for myself what I didn't want to become, what I didn't want to pursue. You know, if anything, I looked at urban planning more in social planning, which I felt was already intrinsically value based in community organizing. So it was the part of social planning of urban planning that kind of like uplifted me. And that's what I felt that the Japantown theses was about.

Timeframe 1:05:48 >> 1:07:50

To explain, I was a student in urban planning, and I was also hired on to work in the reading Room for Asian American Studies with Greg Mark. I met Greg Mark at… I became familiar with him at Berkeley and his work in Oakland, Chinatown. And so when I came in, Roy had been partially credited to bringing him down to teach and then also becoming the coordinator Asian American studies. So as I was pursuing my my graduate degree in urban planning, I was working part time for Asian American studies. And then Greg Mark says he's going to be leaving. He's going to regard it as a leave of absence. And he wanted me to consider being an acting coordinator until he decided that he was going to continue with his new job in Hawaii. And so here I was for about two years, 77 and 79. I was part-time coordinator for Asian American Studies, of which I was also working with Vickie [Taketa] and many others in faculty roles. But it was still student run. Yeah, I didn't have a degree, and yet here I was a coordinator. I had an interface with the Social Science, School of Social Science and was always reminded that I didn't have a degree that maybe you should pursue a doctorate. And that wasn't what I was interested in.

Timeframe 1:07:50 >> 1:10:10

So getting back to what did I do for work? Asian American studies. And then as as I was doing Asian American studies and acting coordinator, two of my friends playing taiko, Linda Ito and Ellenbeth and myself decided to start a business. It was earthenWEAR. We thought it was just going to be like, Oh, let's make something for the bicentennial of San Jose, which was also part of the first Nikkei matsuri here in Japantown. So we said, okay, let's see what what can we sell at the Nikkei Matsuri? So what do we share. Oh well we can all sew, so well how, what do we want to sew. Well maybe Asian inspired designs using ethnic fabrics. And so that was like again, guilt going into more hobby extension. And this was happening during the time I was with Asian American studies after Asian American studies, I left. It's like I had to ask my two partners, how long are we going to do this like this as a hobby? Because I have to make some decisions. Should I go for my doctorate and continue with teaching, or do we want to really expand on Earthenwear as a business? Are we going to get more serious? And that's what we did for the next 79 to 85 was basically earthenware earthenwear wearing contemporary ethnic clothing art.

Timeframe 1:10:10 >> 1:13:54

So at the time I was in urban planning, there was a lot of movement work happening in Los Angeles and in San Francisco, like how to save Japantown. And I wanted to use these as case studies in a way of what does San Jose Japantown need? Because there was never like a study of like, what does Japantown want? And looking at the possible issues and problems that outside investments coming from into Japan, towns in San Francisco and in Los Angeles, they were losing the identity of the community. I didn't want that to happen. So that was kind of like what I was basing my thesis on, like what can we do for Japantown? I think it was great. Well, my my advisors from Urban Planning said, Well, this is a really great topic. Thank you very much. You know, we're going to be taking students into Japantown, you know, just kind of becoming familiar. At that time, there was really no awareness about diversity and looking at specific cultural communities, you know, I wanted basically that was my own affiliation. My connection was like, okay, I'm finding San Jose Japantown to be my home, and I want to be a part of making sure that we can really preserve it, have it. Yeah, that’s what that thesis was about. Like how do we preserve this as an ethnic, cultural community?

(Interviewer) Do you still have it, your thesis?

Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, you know, after I had written it years before. Oh, actually, after having written it years before, I thought it was just like, oh, this is what's going to help me graduate. You know, I had no idea that years later that the San Jose City would refer to it in redevelopment. You know, Kip Harkness, who was a part of really envisioning healthy communities and using San Jose's Japantown as kind of like a great community for the people in the community to start defining what it wants, why and how can we do that? And so Kip is always very quick to remind me it's because of your, you know thesis. I said, oh gosh, I didn't really realize it would have that kind of impact because it was just coming from what I was personally needed to be reclaimed, something that needed to be revitalized. How can community really become a part of creating the community we want?

Transformation & Change Timeframe 1:13:54 >> 1:18:56

Okay. You know, I never really have embraced the word activism for myself because I have actually regarded, you know, if I had a choice to refer to activism, I feel like I would use I would be an activator. I like to activate. And so activism, there's a kind of an expectation of putting out, you know, in a I would say in a sort of way in the big ball of wax with that is like, I'm trying to find this comfort zone of who I am, of what I can put out into the world. And so the values I think the very first thing that I always use is empowerment. How to feel empowerment in empowering our community and also how to empower self. It was the sense of like, yeah, how do I at that? At that time it was not like I'm trying to tell my story. It was like social justice, even though that's more of the common words that we use now. But it wasn't so out there as this is social justice. It's like, let's just rise up. It's become visible.

Let's empower ourselves, our community. So empowerment is like probably the first value for me, the values that you go walking into San Jose Japantown and the wall of values of what that the Issei, you know, what has been captured there. It's like, wow, yeah, that's what I grew up with as well. Didn't really regard these terms as I was growing up, but I'm going this has its place in identity. It has its place and really centering self with, I will say, morality with kindness. I was thinking about like how to break systems, how to create one that was really holistic, where people were actually living power to the people. In so doing, it has been at the foundation that has carried over and whatever I do.

The impact of Asian American studies that San Jose State actually was all about relationships. It's all the relationships of people who were working with each other to make things happen. It's like that was the network to create a ripple effect, to enter from this consciousness of Asian American studies values that also incorporated community organizing. That was very much fundamental to what my involvement in Asian American studies, community organizing and all the people that were a part of creating and being a part of systemic change, creating new organizations that addressed mental health like AACI to see [Asian] Law Alliance, to see all these things being developed out of that consciousness that came from Asian American studies as well as within Japantown community. Yes. These relationships definitely became the incubator to everything that has developed. You know, it's these connections and even collisions that gave us the opportunity to think outside the box.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 1:18:56 >> 1:26:25

(Interviewer) And before the Asian American studies, did you feel or see that this kind of space to incubate did exist before, or was it created at this time, a moment?

I think it was at this time and moment, and I can only speak from my involvement in whatever activity, but I can see this continuum of my values, in my involvement with even pursuing artistic expression through Taiko. The taiko experience was kind of like the conk on the head, you know? Oh my God, I have to do that. It's literally vibrating this body, you know? And I it's like, wow, there's this kind of this effervescent, visceral impact that was hitting me at the core, at the heart, and also I can feel was more immediate impact. And that was like, oh my God, that is cultural. This is something that I had identified with. And as we were learning about how to play taiko, it's like, oh, are we bastardize the taiko art form because we're not playing on real Japanese taiko made in Japan, where we we are using drums out of old wine barrels. We're using things that we have at our disposal.

So that will become our drum because we can't afford those drums from Japan. So you make do so. Also it's like, is this what they do in Japan or do we listen to the LPs? You remember those albums and just try to mimic and copy the songs and going from the very get go, he says, those aren't our songs, those we have to respect that. Those are expressions of what people play from their region. That's their identity. We have to create our own music. And it wasn't so much thinking that we have to create our own music. It was like the talent of the individuals in the group. At the very beginning, they were already playing music, you know, with each other, and that it was kind of that musical experience that the innovative sounds that we grew up with, you know, maybe it was considered innovative. It was the pulse of hearing jazz or rock and roll or R&B, you know, that was informing the music.

And that was kind of like, oh, that's what our music is about. There's no way that we can really play Japanese folk songs, and this is taiko. So it was always exploration. What is it uncovering? How to make drums better? That was part of the craft. How do we express how we show ourselves? You know, Oh, we have to design something different. And then also with the Earthenwear, it was like, Oh, a canvas. Also that comes into play of like what we're wearing besides the music. It was like the organizational infrastructure of how we operated as a group. And it kind of goes back to those tenets. The, the, the values of empowerment. So no one is above the other. It's not a top down. We're going to make it horizontal. This is how everybody has input into the development of what taiko can be. So we always worked as a collective, and we knew that we could never become the organizations that were already established by San Francisco Taiko Dojo, the first to start with a sensei. He made all the decisions and it was a top down structure. And then there was also the taiko from Los Angeles that was more more created on Buddhist philosophy.

It's like, no, no matter who you are or how you play, you're in it altogether. And then there's San Jose, taiko, and we're saying, Wow, we're taking our community organizing values to be a part of the organizational structure of how we operate. And it's not going to be this way. It's going to be this way. And we are going to also we weren't modeling ourselves actually, after any other group. We were trying to use taiko as a a way of practicing how to be like as part of Asian American expression, part of community. Community was very, very instrumental in that and establishing San Jose Japantown as like a commitment for how we relate and play within this community.

In order to educate or even share to people who were not aware of what taiko is. So like how do we formulate some basis of understanding what is the core values of how we play? So it did have us sit down at our kitchen table going, What is it that we experience watching San Francisco taiko dojo Sensei and watching Kinnara taiko in Los Angeles? They they preceded us, but they inspired us as well. But how are we different? And and what? How do we create something that is us? So the core values is like just because it was made in Japan, does it make it like we will take that and practice that? It's like it had to have a space and a place and a reason.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 1:26:25 >> 1:30:26

So that was what was really important. So what are we going to say that we learn from all these things? Okay, we decided that we were based on four core principles, and those principles are attitude, musical technique, kata, kata and chi chi. And those were purposely pulled together as having two English words and two Japanese words to really show kind of this bicultural influence of what was informing us of what we were creating. So the attitude is like, okay, we're leaving everything behind before you enter the door. You come here to completely immerse yourself in experience of interconnecting and playing with each other in an ensemble. It's not about you. It's about this interaction. And how is that presented in play? How is it represented and shown in the practice? So that's attitude, open mind, open heart, beginner's mind musical technique, because it is a musical instrument.

We never regarded taiko as the instrument. It is an instrument, indeed it is a drum. But here is this person in connection with their bachi, the drumstick and striking, and it's the movement. So the instrument is the total of the person with the drum. That's the instrument. And thinking about the instrument as like, what is it that you're putting out there? The consciousness of like we are inviting you, erasing the viewer, the audience from the player. We all can do. This is basically what we are inviting people to experience. So musical technique, the how to’s, playing the music and learning not through sheet music. We learn through kuchi shōga, which is syllables. Don-Don-Kara-Ka-Don-Kara-Ka. We had to learn these pieces by saying this way and not referring to sheet music. Kata It is kind of like where you find your center. It's like the martial arts. It's like how to be powerful and it also becomes like the instrument, how to show that this extension, it doesn't stop between here and hitting the drum. It's like pulling in the infinite possibilities of energy and space that goes into that one Don. Kata. It's like that's the musical expression in form, in movement, the chi is like universal life force energy that many other cultures refer to as prana mana, chi. How do you bring that in and pull it all together? Not one principal is more important than the other. So that was basically the values of like how to practice. And that that became a template for how we teach taiko that continues to this day.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 1:30:26 >> 1:34:36

So I have to explain that taiko, even in Japan, is a recent phenomenon. It's like post-World War two when we think about ensemble playing. I mean, there was always like playing for festivals and thing in different regions. But then the ensemble idea I think was like to help uplift Japan to come out of World War Two, you know, the trauma and that they started to play a little small ensembles like at resorts where people can go an air out and go, Oh, that's taiko. And then again, the visceral impact and uplifting. So this ensemble we call Kumi taiko became something that San Jose taiko literally took as kind of a value, whereas in Japan, Kumi taiko is referred to all that's like group play or ensemble play. For us, we go, Kumi taiko is ensemble. How do you work with each other? Listen to each other. In fact, when we tell this to Japanese taiko players, they go, wow, you're really taking it deep. We just think of that as, you know, you know, group taiko.

So there was like, how do we be inspired by Japanese taiko, but knowing that our application has to be relevant and how do we place that in a practice and does that really show beyond without talking about it once we play? Yes, it does. When San Jose Taiko first started, there were mostly women, and in Japan there weren't as many women playing taiko. We're talking about in the seventies, early seventies. So when we started to have some type of interaction with Japanese taiko, you know, many times they would say, that's not Japanese taiko. Their thing was they were defining us based on what they knew as taiko, and it was very hurtful. Again, it's like they're not regarding us as taiko players. And then of course, maybe few years later, it was like, you're right, we're not Japanese taiko. And it is for this reason that we have created these principles. There was there were no schools or principles that were being practiced in Japan for us to emulate. We created like, what is it that we're learning from San Francisco?

What is it that we're learning from Los Angeles? And to say that these three first Taiko groups in America came from Japanese American communities. So that's where I'm taking pride and saying that, yeah, North American taiko, based on our Japanese American communities, how are expressing who we are here? And that's basically who we were sharing with other Japanese American communities who wanted to start taiko in their communities, in their Buddhist church, in their, you know, of other groups. And so that was kind of empowerment that we were freely sharing the knowledge, sharing potential expression.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 1:34:36 >> 1:44:55

(Interviewer) Can you kind of talk about how creating us taiko for San Jose, taiko it was a form of activism? Or, how it is a form of activation?

I do embrace activism at that, but I don't want it to get lost in in today's definitions, you know, because we we realized that setting out on this course of playing and doing something that we feel is our expression of who we are as Asian Americans, you know, was activism already. You know, it's like showing who we are. It is like standing up for what do you mean we can't go out for funding? You don't know what Taiko is. Well, we're appealing to the Fine Arts Commission. You are not included in the fine arts. You know, community arts, cultural arts. It's like you're just funding the ballet, the symphony, the opera, the theater, you know, And there weren't that many cultural art forms happening when we were developing. There were only a handful not even a handful. And as we were starting to go down the road, then multicultural arts started to come to the surface, and we were part of that multicultural arts exploration of what does that mean? There's more bodies from the community that are coming together and this is what's what they're there representing from the community.

So I think we were enlivening what multicultural arts could be when it was first being brought up. The activism part still, I think it is something that you are stirring the the soul. We are stirring spirit. You know, maybe that's not really. I consider that as activating energy, activating possibilities when even some Japanese groups are saying, oh, my goodness, you are California sunshine, the way you play, you are so joyful, you look like you're having fun. And it's true that the Japanese taiko groups at that time were very kind of this dimension, but it was like we were playing from like an exuberance through the body, you know, where they say you’re look like you're having a good time. And we're saying, why do it if we're not? So we realize that there was like, yeah, a presence in the community.

I would say not only Japanese American community, that activation of of energy people can feel, but it became even more important to feel that activation and also feeling embraced by San Jose Japantown of all Japanese American communities that would eventually create their own taiko groups. It's like creating a language this is authentic JA artistic expression that was created here in North America in these three Japanese remaining remaining Japanese communities of L.A., San Francisco and San Jose. So I will also say maybe at this point how we had not realized, like our individual impact or San Jose Taiko’s impact of how taiko would make its way in other communities. But it also became where we became teachers to people not from the community who would take this experience and go to Europe and go, I love what I experienced, you know, for two years. San Jose Taiko, somebody who was working for Hewlett Packard, who was assigned here on a job after practicing with us, he left Hewlett-Packard when he had to return back to England to start a Taiko group for children. He says, I want to see taiko in every single elementary school and every single school. And yes, I felt like, how wonderful.

I felt how wonderful that this energy of taiko is now going out beyond the borders of North America. And who was I to say that? No, you can't take that. I don't want to control that, you know, and yet I was encouraging that growth, too. But it was over, you know, time that I started to feel like, hmm, you know, you're teaching this role. You're not you're not teaching from how where this came from for us. You're taking our four principles and say, this is traditional taiko. And in order to inform and educate people in England, he was selling, you know, this information and I was going, this doesn't feel right. You know, this doesn't feel right. We haven't even done that for our own music or for our own principles. And, you know, it's only later that I agree that is appropriation. But but where it really anchors me is like, this is really a Japanese American art form that came from these communities that is beginning to be forgotten where it came from. So for when I my remaining years of being involved with taiko is like, I would like to not forget that anybody who is playing taiko can acknowledge where the root came from.

To say that these principles aren't ancient Japanese philosophy. You have two English words and two Japanese words. Yeah, that this never becomes erased, which is already happening already. Because these groups in in our outside arts are saying we're not playing taiko for cultural purposes. So. Well, that is already like where where does that fit? You know, yes, it's empowering the people who are playing. That's the beauty of what taiko does, but it's not on that foundation of cultural experience of blood, sweat and tears of was that history. So yeah, we are proliferating. We are, you know, increasing the number of people who are playing taiko, which is great, but it's like we want to call it back.

Yes, there is inspiration, influence from Japan, but this way of thinking where it is community organizing, where it is really embodying the human spirit of who we can individually be in interaction with each other, and to think that we can break these systemic ways of being controlled, do it through expression. I believe that the directors of San Jose taiko right now are really embracing that whole experience, and that is through the training process as well. People coming in that they are also given this information how to make it their own and also represent what it is that was fundamentally important to us at the very beginning, that empowerment don't take it for granted to be able to see that we're not just only playing taiko, just to play taiko, that we are playing taiko with this awareness of being a part of a community, that we are also representing community.

Timeframe 1:44:55 >> 1:52:51

Okay. Our connection to Kodo Kodo actually started in 1977 when they were under the group name of Za Ondekoza, demon drummers of Japan. And there was a divorce that happened between the director who took the name of Ondekoza and also all the drums and to create to continue with Ondekoza but all the original members of Ondekoza or became Kodo. So in sorry, 1989. Oh excuse me, as this this transition from Ondekoza to Kodo, Roy was invited to go to Kodo as they were just starting to create themselves with their new name. And Roy was called in to help them on their first tour and to bring them to America and kind of helping on stage producing and technical technician and also helping them through their tour engagement. That's how we became very good friends and we also trained with them. Roy and another member of San Jose Taiko, Tomiko Nozaki, who was part of Tofu San Jose Tofu family and was a member of San Jose Taiko with Roy, and they were experiencing training with Kodo and helping them during like their Japan tour after they had done their American tour. And then Gary Sugimoto and myself joined Tomiko and Roy about five months later, and we experience living with Kodo during the winter on Sado Island in the Japan Sea side where you get frostbitten if you just even put a toe out. But we were training with them and that's where another layer of like, oh, artistic expression, you know, and also being inspired by where they get their creative juice.

So for Roy to experience having worked with Kodo in theater, he came back with the idea of like, you know, San Jose taiko can be more than just playing for festivals in the street. He was envisioning this really, we really need to validate this Japanese American art form on stage. And so that's where San Jose Taiko started to think about, wow, where is what is our what do we want to do with taiko? And after several years after experiencing Kodo, we also was working with Ondekoza, who invited us to Japan and had play on stage Japanese taiko with their Japanese made taiko, and we insisted to take our American made taiko to be on the Japanese stage. We wanted to show, you know, and of course there was a sound difference. There was musical difference. And then to interact with the Japanese audience after the performance, they go, [rapid sounds]. Oh, you, thank you. And then like this face again, you're not Japanese. And then, oh, you know, it was kind of this revelation that Japanese in America playing taiko?

Wow, what a phenomenon, you know. And so we come back from that experience and talk about in the group. So what was that all about? Do we have an obligation? Is there a vision? Yes, we need to really expand and to share more of the this experience to the wider American audience. How are we going to do that? Let's consider to become a professional company. So that's where the idea of becoming professional can guide us on this way of what San Jose Taiko was all about today.

Every single person who comes through San Jose Taiko realizes that they're not there just to play taiko, that they are there to actually become a part of continuing the organization, that they too are becoming teachers for the kids and also being models for incoming performers. And so it's mentorship is continuing mentorship and and mentoring the values at all time. So the individuals who became members of San Jose Taiko is like, you are part of a community, that you are a part of building community with that consciousness and each person comes there with their skill set and we, whether it's building, helping build the drums, everybody has to learn how to take care of everything, of maintaining and repairing and just everything else.

Oh, for for me, another part of that artistic expression was like contributing to the design of the happi coat or the costumes that we wear on stage. Other members are part of the sewing or even the design element making new ways of performing on stage. Like for Roy, having gone to Japan and seeing Kodo playing with huge taiko and taking so long to make transition from one song to another song on stage because, you know, I think what we have to do is to develop maybe some kind of stands that are on wheels so that we can, you know, expedite what happens on the stage and setting up. So it's like always thinking and in how to design, to be creative, to imagine what is possible. So it was like each person had that input and how they contributed to the group.

Timeframe 1:52:51 >> 1:56:21

So for both Roy and myself, from 1973 to 2011, we were a a part of San Jose Taiko and for over I, I don't know how many years we were in directorship and then to transition from us leaving that those positions we really had to think thoughtfully about the succession. It wasn't like I want one stop. And we really mindfully created a succession plan in which the next generation of new directors would come, and it was so seamless that people said, “Oh, you're gone?” I mean, they still think we're there, we are in spirit, but it's like this new generation is carrying on. So I think that was kind of like an almost an example of a model of like how to transmit essential values to the next generation because it was seamless. They were already inhabiting that space that they can continue in this way. So for me, from 2011 and for Roy too became became, we're not playing taiko anymore. But yet I wasn't like I was retiring. I would get some angry. I get so angry when people How are you enjoying retirement? Don't say retirement. Don't say that. I don't like that word. You know, I'm considering that it's re-wirement. So what has is there is still in me it's not like I have to start something new.

That's what people expect. Like, oh, you're retired. You're going to find something else to do now is like how to part of the continuum? What's next? I don't know. I don't know how I'm going to land. I'm going to have to become a solo performer for the first time. And I had started on in the succession plans working with a consultant. So, PJ, what are you going to do? And I can just feel myself getting really flustered and almost tearing up. And the thing that came out of my mouth is. Taiko Peace. Oh, so this the consultant and what's that? Because I don't know. It just came out of my mouth. Just came out of my mouth. I just feel that I've never been a peace activist, you know? But I feel that the principles of San Jose taiko, our peace culture and that's what I really want to amplify in some way, shape or form. I can do that through my workshops or the way I, I, I just what I embody in, in, in performance. But I don't have a template. I don't have a plan of how this is coming about.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 1:56:21 >> 2:02:10

It has been happening over all this time because it was not just only figuring out what's next. I have to deal with an elderly mother. You know how to take care of a senior parent becoming a caregiver. How do I like, Oh my God, I'm putting my life on the back burner to deal with what I what my mother needs. And then there was a friend that says PJ, you're not putting your life on the backburner. That's life. And as soon as she said that, I go, thank you very much. And it really kind of re-framed how I was connecting with my mother even. And to this day, my mom will turning 98 and I'm trying to make her life as fulfilling as possible. And with dignity at the same time. And Taiko Peace has been kind of evolving. I kind of fast forward because the pandemic from 2020 to 2023 was kind of giving everybody an opportunity to pause. So for me, it was like pausing, but at the same time, I was being encouraged. P.J., you know, Taiko peace needs to be here at this time.

So Pear Urushima, a former member of San Jose Taiko, kind of kind of she she created my Taiko Peace website. And with that website, it's like this is what you can use as a platform. I think you should talk and give a presentation. That's what will I do. I need to be in 1 to 1 direct contact. And it's like I heard myself going, cut that out. Do it. So it was the zoom calls that like, Oh, I'm able to articulate what Taiko Peace is . Also finding out there are individuals that are really wanting to know more about a different set of values, not just only taiko playing, but I was really amplifying systemic change even within the taiko culture. Don't keep it as just performing art form. Just how can we also interact more openminded as creating, healthy community with culture or with peace culture. And that's where I am finding really new avenues of finding people who are wanting to do that in their taiko development. Another aspect, too, is that I've also said during the pandemic is I am I'm going to pick and choose the kind of performances, the kind of workshops that I've been requested to do and what I want to put out and that is showing up differently.

One of the things during the pandemic, too, I've learned more about Indigenous Japanese culture, which I never knew about somebody who was following me through Taiko Peace. PJ, Oh my God, You know, I really resonate with your values. I want to work with you. And I go, I've heard about you, the work that you're doing. I want to know about what you've uncovered with Megaliths in Japan and also what you've been uncovering through this ancestral wisdom, a wisdom that I would not have ever known about. We're talking about the first, you know, era of Japanese culture. I'm going I'm learning about this indigeneity, that's universal of being in connection to cosmos and nature and you as the vessel. That's what how we all, all indigenous cultures live by. And this particular moment in Japanese history was like a long period of peace. So how did that come about? So it's like learning about that during the last three years for me in the pandemic, I was like, Wow, I'm in, I'm at peace with my identity, I'm at peace with my identity, with Japanese culture, because more rooted is is in that universality of indigenous culture. And how do I bring that into my practice of Taiko Peace?

Transformation & Change Timeframe 2:02:10 >> 2:05:49

I'm angry about what's happening to this permission of how we treat each other and in particular, seeing this coming into our communities. It hits home because we have to become vigilant for our seniors living in San Jose's Japantown, it's like during the pandemic, there were the community members that felt this responsibility to keep our seniors safe, that they created a program to assist them to go to there, to pick up their lunches from Yu Ai Kai, from the senior citizens center, and help escort them back home. So it's like seeing that there is this problem, but how do we deal with it in our way? So that we can create safe places for our community to exist? I feel that even playing taiko it allows for people to step out and feel that visceral impact of, Oh, joy, hard to experience joy during the pandemic, but it's like a memory being an inviting memory out.

Yeah, this is what it feels like to feel liberation, feels wonderful to be in connection so how to not come up against Asian hate and not just only be angry, how do you bring it into implementable ways as to deal with, to address, to heal? I've been really thinking about how do we think outside the box? It's not only taking these stories to teach or to share, but I would like for students to feel that they can be a part of creating positive social change and how they can see themselves as feeling empowered to do that. And what I would love for Asian American studies to be able to pick up from long past is like community work to get our students into the community to experience what it feels like to interact. What is it that they're learning through Asian American studies and even in the larger studies on campus of, like, I'm not just going to get a degree, what is this all about that I can contribute in transforming, you know, our direction that we're going, that they can feel that they have the power to help steer us in a more positive way?

Timeframe 2:05:49 >> 2:08:41

I could not foresee what it was that I was doing with my thesis. You know, when I'm thinking about Japantown, of course it was very endearing that we protect it, and I'm feeling the responsibility, you know, And at that time I was a young person. I wasn't seeing that, you know, much later down the road. There's not that many young people returning physically to Japantown. I mean, that's institutional through the churches, church activities. But it's like, come and go. And now there are other organizations like the (JAMsj) Museum that are reaching out. You know, that would be more family in incorporating family activities. But there is a consciousness of like raising awareness. So it's not a single person or a single group that's doing this. I just really feel kind of like this coming together of awareness, coming from individuals, other groups that are conscious of what is it that we have built, what is it that we have created, what is it that we want to protect? What is important for a cultural community to have ongoing space for living and interacting, to be imaginative, to be creative and still build in a positive way.

Also, how do we invite and welcome non-Japanese Americans or people that are finding that they want to live here? I would like to have a way to welcome incoming residents so that they can feel a part contributing and understanding that background of history of this community of Chinatown, of Japantown, Filipinotown. It's like this incorporation of like, why are you living here in this new apartment that you're not coming and going? I would like to take that as a challenge, creative challenge of like not creating more separation, but creating more inclusive vibrancy.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 2:08:41 >>

It was my mother who got me and push me. You need to have poise. You need to become more confident, you know? And so it came through the dance. But I realized just over time that I was. That's my comfort zone because I could not rely on my words to express who I was. I can express through this expression, you know, and so for me, movement has become a metaphor in so many different ways. Movement, Asian American movement, you know, it's like also feeling the visceral movement of what it is. It's not just like because I believe in that. It's like, what am I really invested in that I'm feeling coming from my core? I call that core essence. Core Essence that basically informs us to live in a more harmonious way, more unified way, that movement. It's not intellectual thinking that will solve all the problems. It's like if you can feel the problems and if you can feel what. Even self-expression can put out there. You have to feel it in your body for it to be a aha moment. Then it's not like, Well, I was told and I believe in that. But how are you feeling it? How are how are you living it through those feelings? Those thoughts that are important to you? Oftentimes for me, I can't articulate. What? What? What are those feelings? I can say it's a warm and fuzzy, but it's not. It's just so much more that it has multidimensions of how who we are that we don't lock ourselves in this limited box.

(Interviewer) Thank you. Thank you. I also notice your hands lead first. I don't know what follows.

It's like trying to pull out the words because it. Yeah, the words don't come to me. It's. It's incredible. You also use the term morality. Well, you know, I want to say what's what I really feel is what I want to say is truth. But truth is such an ambiguous word for many to define. Your truth is different from my my truth, you know, but that that is at the basis. You know, the morality of being human, how we treat each other, you know, how we treat each other with compassion, empathy. That is in my core values for Taiko Peace. It is in what I feel is part of what taiko can emulate. Model. Inspire. Influence. And connecting that all with the consciousness of levels, the playing field, and with the awareness of social justice.