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Eimi Okano

Date: October 25, 2022
 Interviewer: Ellina Yin, Yvonne Kwan, Vickie Taketa
 Interviewee: Eimi Okano (1937 - )

Eimi Okano is a sansei who found her advocacy and social activism through the Parent Teacher Association and the evaluation of textbooks for racist, sexist, and classist language'later leading to the change of the CA Education Code.

Transcript of Eimi Okano

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Timeframe 0:00 >> 3:27

I was born Eimi Kathleen Kimura. And then when I got married, I attached Okano to the last name. My legal driver's license says Eimi Kimura Okano.

(Interviewer) And your place of birth.

Oakland, California, just before the war.

(Interviewer) What year was that?

(Interviewer) And your father's name and place of birth?

His name is Henry Koaru Kimura. And he was born in Hawaii, raised in Japan, went to school in Japan, and then escorted his sister to America to get married. And there he met my mother and stayed here thereafter.

(Interviewer) When did he move back to the states?

Let's see, it must have been when he was about 22. So, I don't know, 22... He moved back here in 1934, I guess. '33 or '34. And then my mom and dad got married in '35. So I think, yeah, 1930 maybe 1932 or 1933, around there.

(Interviewer) And then your mother's name and place of birth?

Her name is Michi-- Michigo. And I think her middle name is Irene, which which she never used. And then her last name is Nakao. N A K A O. Born in Oakland, California. Let's see. As far as I can remember, my mom did housework and my dad was a gardener. And after the war, we came back to their house in Oakland. But that neighborhood had become run down. And so they didn't want us to stay there. And my dad and my mom got a job in Walnut Creek at a huge ranch. The president of Capwell's had a house out there, and he had his own house and then he had a smaller house for us to stay in. So we moved there right after the war, pretty much, and then until I was in like fifth grade.

And then they moved us back to Berkeley because my mom was always thinking about the fact that she wanted us to be exposed to the Japanese American culture and, and society, whereas in Walnut Creek, we were the only non-whites, in anywhere, and everywhere around there at that time. So we moved to Berkeley. And, so I considered Berkeley my home. And I think I was in the sixth grade when we moved there, and my two sisters were younger, so we all went through the Berkeley school system, and we considered Berkeley our home.

I have two sisters. One is like 12 months younger than I am, so we were like twins. We grew up together. And then the third one is like four years younger. So I feel bad that she was not included in any of our activities until after we got to be adults after school. Once we once we hit the university scene, then it seemed like all the distance and the arguments that we used to have disappeared, and we became very close after that, which was nice.

Systems & Power Timeframe 3:27 >> 7:25

You know, the story that I've heard is that just before the war broke, my dad had bought a nursery close to the Berkeley, Oakland area. It was just a few months after that that we all got word that I had to leave the area. So they had to sell everything at a loss. So there was, there was a huge... One of the marvelous things about the Japanese American community as a whole and my family in particular, too, is that I never heard any complaints about their loss or they may have complained among themselves or something, but never within earshot did we ever hear anything that was criticizing anything or anybody. It was just I think in a way, maybe it's Buddhistic. You accept that which is and you move from there. And that's what we did.

I just remember that my dad had a little a mischievous streak in him. And that, after we got the word that we had to get to the bus stop and they were going to take us someplace, he knew that the bus would not leave without him. So he was the last one to get onto the bus. It was amazing, his sense of humor that way, you know. But we did all get together. I guess we were taken Tanforan first, the assembly center, and then sent to Topaz as a group. And then there we had the questionnaire that came out for my folks to sign. And my dad was a 'No-No [Boy]'. And so we were sent to Tule Lake after that, and that's where we spent the years of our during the war.

(Interviewer) And so you must have been around four or so?

Yeah, I think I was, I turned five by then. Okay. You know, I think for me, as long as I was with the stability of the family, with my mom and dad, I just figure that I'll just go wherever they took us. And so I didn't feel any kind of loss along those lines. I felt very secure the whole time, and it wasn't until much later that I realized what had happened to us. And then it became an unfair issue. I would say probably after we got back, after school. Yeah. I think as the J-A [Japanese American] community started to become active along these lines. I think in the community we couldn't help but know what was going on in the bigger picture, especially with the activism of like Edison Uno. By that time I was in high school, and hearing about this, it became more clear as to the unjustifiable nature of that whole experience. So I began to follow what Edison was doing along with several other friends.

Well, you know, my dad was not political in any way. And so for him, answering the questionnaire was simply a way of being honest in terms of his answers. So I don't think he had any intention of being active in saying 'No-No' on those two questions. So, because he said, 'No-No', we went to Tule Lake. He had three girls that were, like, a newborn. I was five and then my sister was four and then a newborn. So he was busy with being sure that all of us were taken care of, so I don't think that we felt-- it would have been the same no matter which camp we were in. He wasn't involved with the active part. But I remember seeing the young boys dressed all in, I think in a white shirt or something, doing exercises, walking, marching around the camp every morning. So that was impressive that way. I guess it was just boys too. I guess I don't remember seeing any girls among them.

Timeframe 7:25 >> 9:11

(Interviewer) Did you have any friends, or? What was life like living in the camps?

You know, I don't remember all that much. It just felt like any other neighborhood, I guess. We played. I remember just trying to... There was something like 'Red Rover, Red Rover, let's see if you can come over' or something like that. And then we would throw the ball over the barracks to get to the other side. And so, that was that was an activity that I remember us participating in. But other than that, we had Japanese school in the morning and then we went to English school in the afternoon all the time. All of us did that, so it was kind of like a way of life. And it was important for my parents that we maintain our Japanese heritage and the language, especially since my grandmother spoke Japanese most of the time. So, I don't remember all that much about camp in particular. I know some people have photographic memories of that period, but... I just remember that-- because my parents made us feel secure, it didn't make any difference where we were. It was just the way life was at that time. Yeah, I think that we remember there was a time when, just in playing, you get too close to the barbed wire fence out there. And then the guards that were on watchtowers would tell us to get away from the fence. But other than that, you know, nothing too consequential.

Timeframe 9:11 >> 13:31

Gee, you know, I imagine it [returning home from camp] was by train. I don't remember the trip all that much, but my folks had bought a house in Oakland before the war, and they entrusted it to an attorney. Since my dad was a gardener, he worked for different people and one of them was an attorney and asked him to take care of their house while we were gone, which he did. Not well, but he did. At least it stayed in my dad's name. So we came back and we had the house there, but it was in such disrepair that we couldn't stay there.

And so we moved to Walnut Creek and lived in a small three bedroom home on the outskirts of this one big house that was there. And so my mom cleaned the house and did a little bit of the cooking. And then my dad took care of the yard there. So we stayed there until I was in like fifth grade, I guess fourth or fifth grade. And for my mom, it was really important that we maintain our Japanese heritage. And therefore she decided we were going to move back to the Bay Area and they kept their home in Oakland but didn't want us to move into the neighborhood there.

So I don't know how they managed it because there was such a restriction up on North Berkeley for non-whites to move into that area. But I think they had contact through the different people that they met through housework and gardening that they were able to buy a house there and we moved there. And the reason she chose Berkeley was, we were in the shadow of UC Berkeley, and she wanted us to go there. So it was kind of like a subtle reality for us that she expected us to go there. She never talked about it. She never did a lot of the, you know, planting the seeds, so to speak. She just made the move. That's what we did because we couldn't afford to go to any other school anyway. So we used to walk from the home to Berkeley, which was, I guess more than a mile when we used to walk. But my dad would drop us off whenever he happened to be going that way.

(Interviewer) So and all three of the siblings went to Berkeley?

We all did. Yes.

(Interviewer) Go Bears.

Yes. Go Bears.

(Interviewer) And then I'm just wondering. I must have been a big shock for you to live in camp with a lot of other Japanese families and then moved to Walnut Creek. Such a white area.

Yeah, you know, I didn't look at it that way. It was just kind of accepting that which is, because everything was so-- because we didn't have any experience that said that 'we didn't belong there' or that 'we were different' from. I was amazed. I mean, looking back on it now, I'm amazed at how smooth all of that was whenever we moved anywhere. It wasn't, as far as I remember for myself anyway, there wasn't that trauma of any any kind. And I think I credit my mom and dad for that kind of stability that they showed to us from the beginning.

You know, after camp, we stayed with my cousin's family because they had a larger home around the corner from my mom's house. And it was in better shape than my mom's house. I think that as we lived in Walnut Creek over the period of time, my mom began to realize that even though she drove us to Oakland Buddhist Church every Sunday, it wasn't enough for us to maintain our culture and our sense of who we were. So she made the decision to move to Berkeley for two things. One was to be closer to Berkeley Buddhist temple, where we can go on Sundays, and the other was to be close to Cal. And so she. She thoughtfully made that decision to to make that change.

Timeframe 13:31 >> 16:10

Let's see. When we moved back from Walnut Creek, we went to Jefferson Elementary School in Berkeley. I think I was in the sixth grade at that time because I remember that I wasn't there that long. And the house that they bought was right across the street from the junior high school. So we used to hear the bell and run across the street. By the second bell, we were in our classrooms, so it was very convenient that way. From there we went to Berkeley High School. Now, in Berkeley at that time, they had three junior high schools: one on the north side of town, we happened to live in that side; one on the, I guess southeast side of town, where a lot of the Japanese American families were there; and then South Berkeley, where most of the African American families were there.

So the three junior high schools were segregated. One was predominantly white kids, another one that predominantly Asian kids, and another one that was predominantly African American kids. Until we get to Berkeley High School, which is one high school. So all of us were followed together to be there, although even there, I think we still maintain our separate cliques on campus, especially during the lunch hours. You know, I think I was involved, but not as actively as many others were.

The other thing that happened is that my friend and I decided that we had enough credits so we would graduate half a year early, in February instead of in June. So that made us kind of like out of sync with the rest of our classmates. She was going to go to Michigan. And so she said, 'Why don't you come too?' And so we were talking about that. But then decisions were such that her family and my family both decided that we were going to stay in Berkeley and go to Cal instead. So, that's what happened after that. Oh, because she had contacts in Michigan. And so she was saying, 'Well, let's go to Michigan and go to school there,' without telling my parents or anything and not realizing what the cost factor would be out of state and all that. But I think as reality dawned on us as to whether that was feasible or not, we decided-- families made a decision for us to stay in Berkeley. And so we both went to Cal after that.

Systems & Power Timeframe 16:10 >> 19:44

(Interviewer) So you grew up in Berkeley. How did the activities and the culture of Berkeley affect you? Was it the free speech, the civil rights movement, the strike? How did that impact your identity and my social political outlook?

Yeah, it was interesting to watch that evolve as we were on campus. But myself and my friends, we never got involved in the middle of that. We kind of watched it from the outside, and it felt like the issue was somebody else's issue, not our issue. However, I think that in thinking back on it now, it was everybody's issue. However, at that time, we didn't have any kind of political leadership there that says, you know, 'we're going to do this' and 'let's do that.' So we kind of watched from afar and marveled at the free speech movement and how definite they were as to the rightness of the cause. And... it was, it was impressive to watch, but I was not in the middle of that. No.

(Interviewer) Did you and your family ever talk about it?

Actually not, no. Even among my friends, I think we went, and we watched, but we didn't really talk about it all that much afterwards, even though we had experienced the camp and all that and we should have been more politically aware of what was going on. But I think that we didn't get into that issue at all politically. Kind of like more socially interested. Let's see. It must have been 1950? 1949 or 1950 that I entered college, and my major was Child Development, and I got my teaching credentials there. I think it was looking at the practicality of it all and where my interest lay. I did not know too many Japanese Americans who were not teachers or activists in the community. The diversity of career choices for me as I looked at Japanese Americans was limited. And I think maybe because my horizon was limited as well.

So I think that-- and teaching felt comfortable and being in a classroom situation. I did do some student teaching in the middle school, the middle grades. And my first teaching experience was fifth graders, and they were great because, you know. You can talk to them and they can understand, and you can converse with them. And you don't have to explain a lot of things. And I think that actually they're the best age because they're not quite the teenage years with a lot of other questions having to do with challenging one's story or conversation or anything. That's one of my favorite age with kids.

(Interviewer) Did you have any school activities while you were in college?

Actually, it was just with the Nisei Club that they used to hold on campus. Outside of that, no. Yeah.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 19:44 >> 21:58

Well, our neighborhood was all white. I had a friend whose family was like three blocks down, but my best friend was hakujin [white] during that period of time in high school. And she was a Mormon. So her life was pretty defined by going back to Utah for her college years. So we kind of lost track after that.

You know, it's like, it wasn't the conversation, it was just the kind of decisions that they made. I would have to say it's mostly my mom that was directing our whole family, and where we lived, and what we did. And she always had her eye on us having the best education that we could. And that's why we moved to Berkeley. And she was instrumental in, in a lot of things, but she did it in her quiet way, it was not overt. So we kind of had to read between the lines and kind of understand where she was coming from and what she would like. And so we didn't…we never argued with her, but maybe that's because we were girls in an all-girl family. But yeah, I would have to credit my mom for making all the decisions that she did to make it possible for us to get the best education, because she had her eye on the prize all the time.

(Interviewer) Yeah. How would you say that influenced you? Observing your mom act and make these decisions in these quiet manners? Do you see yourself reflecting that as well?

Probably more so than not, but I don't know that I did in anything consciously. It's just that it wasn't there was no turmoil in the household-- Oh, I remember one time when I think I was challenging her a little bit too much, and I could tell she was getting really, really upset. But instead of yelling and screaming at me, she left the house and went for a walk around the block. And that was very impressive to me as I raise my kids too. You don't have to yell and scream at them. So, yeah, I think that Niseis were that way though, they did things in their quiet way. It wasn't anything dramatic, yeah, but it was very influential.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 21:58 >> 25:43

(Interviewer) So your father was born in Hawaii, but essentially raised in, went to school in Japan?

He went to school in Japan.

(Interviewer) And then your mother was born in Oakland. Were there any differences kind of between them and how they approached the world?

Well, I think that as in many families, you know, my mom left child rearing to-- my dad left child rearing to my mom to raise us. So he never intervened unless we became too argumentative with my mom. Then he would step in, and the only thing he would say is, 'you heard your mother,' and that was enough for us to quit arguing with my mother. And it is just the way he said it I guess. It was just with with so much command and force. It was like if you didn't stop harassing your mother, then you're going to have to deal with me. And we never got that far. [Laughs]. We never tested it. That was enough. It's kind of hard to raise kids these days like that, they're much more verbal.

I think that, I think that my interactions... I would be with my girlfriends, who were all Japanese Americans, and we would do activities together. I don't remember being into anything all that much. I know we were active with the Berkely Buddhist Temple Junior YBA. We'd play basketball. We were in different cabinet positions for the Junior YBA. So it was a Japanese American community that was instrumental for us all those years. And I think it makes it difficult to have been more broadly involved with the larger community, although some people were. Especially I think boys in their sports. And there were a few non-whites involved in school, but I don't really remember them being in the leadership positions all that much in those days. You know, it was very limited because I think... I don't remember going over to any... I used to have a hakujin girlfriend, but I never went over to her house. And whenever she would stay after school we would be out on the school grounds because we were living right across the street, so there was no interaction that way. Even though we were surrounded by Caucasians during the formative years, the teen years. It seemed like that was a normal thing to do. There wasn't anything that we we nagged our parents about, you know, that so-and-so should come over, because my mom realized that the parents might be uncomfortable with that. And so she never encouraged it on our part. In fact, if anything, I think she, in her way, in a quiet way, she discouraged us from it just by ignoring us and our requests. It was easy to get the message from her. So it's interesting how she raised that way, thinking back on it now, you know. Yeah, you know, and I don't think it was just in my family. I think that that's the way it was across the board, because that's why I think that we all got along in terms of the group that I was with. We were raised pretty much the same way. Had the same values.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 25:43 >> 30:06

Ok. We moved back to Berkeley and started going to the Berkeley Buddhist Temple and its activities there. I've heard stories from others about the fact that there was a there was a guy on-- See at that time, the Berkeley Buddhist Temple had another building on the property that they rented out to students. And one was, I think upstairs was for girls and downstairs was for boys. And so there were men around. And they would come into church on Sundays. And so during that period of time, let's see, how did that work out? So I was in high school and my husband-to-be was four years older but lived in the dorm there. So we used to see each other, but I never really noticed him all that much because I was more involved with the high school area activities.

And so he-- after I graduated, he at that time went into the army and spent two or three years. And so we had our separate social lives at that time. And then when he came back, I had graduated. And so we were at the age where, you know, like I was 22 and he was 26 or 27 or something like that. So we didn't have to waste time going through the the courtship process, so to speak. And we were involved at the church and had different activities that we were both involved in. So after that, my girlfriends and I were all married in the same year, three weeks apart, for all of us to get married that time.

And so it was nice. It wasn't none of us were left without a partner. So we-- and then we lived close by within the Berkeley radius. So we would have activities that we would do together. And then we started having babies, and then we would get together to have baby activities. And so we kind of grew up together at that. We all grew up all the way as long as we stayed in the community.

(Interviewer) And your girlfriends were from college, or high school?

High school. We went through high school together. We went through Cal together and then happened to stay in the area, married guys from the area. So we all lived together within the Bay Area community and we would get together like once a month and have our picnics with our kids as they grew in number over the years.

That's an interesting question. Well, you know, I think the years get squished when you're a teenager and he's in his twenties, the years seem quite far. That's not something that I was thinking of so much. But once you're both in the twenties, those years seem to not matter all that much. And so, we used to have different temple activities, conferences, and seminars, etcetera that we would both attend. And so it seemed like a natural course of affairs, events. And when he first asked me out and came over to my house, my parents were impressed with him. And so that made it so that I didn't have to convince them of letting me see him. And after that, so I guess not too long after that, he had a brother who was also going out with one of my peers in Berkeley. And so he said to my husband, 'I'm going to propose to Sumi.' And so you better if you want to propose ahead of me, you better do it now. So sure enough, he did propose, and then soon after that, his brother proposed. And so we got married within, you know, that three week period of time we all got married. It was great, because we didn't have to feel like anybody was left out of that that group.

Timeframe 30:06 >> 33:02

I have three children. And, let's see. I think they're each about two years apart, as it turned out. And my oldest one lives in Texas now with her child. And my son lives in Mountain View. And my youngest daughter, with her three girls, lives with me and her husband. So there are six of us living in this house that was meant really for, maybe, four. But it's a good thing we all get along. And I credit my son-in-law who is not a picky person. He doesn't have to have things in a particular way or else he gets unhappy. He accepts life as it is, and it's nice for his daughters too, that unless they do something dramatically out of-- out of whack, he doesn't complain or he doesn't make a big fuss. And I credit him for enabling my daughter and the three granddaughters to live at our home, because if the husband is unhappy, then it makes it really difficult. So I'm grateful to him.

(Interviewer) So another three girls?

Another three girls! [Laughter]. Yeah. Exactly.

(Interviewer) How did you all decide to live together?

Well, you know, they have a house in San Jose, but my daughter wanted her the kids to have Palo Alto education because it was rated high. And I guess it still is among the top ten. So, I mean, there we were in Palo Alto, so why not? It just seemed to evolve. It wasn't a big planning process. It was like a natural thing. Even though they had a house in San Jose, I don't even know how it all happened. But there they are. [Laughs]. And I'm glad because I don't have to go home to an empty house like so many of my friends do now, you know. It's, and it's been fun to watch the kids grow up, you know, with all of their trials and tribulations of being teenagers and all that. I can sit and kind of say, 'okay, it's my daughter's job to take care of it all.' [Chuckles]. So I can just kind of enjoy it. Not not the fact that they're having these altercations, but the fact that I don't have to get involved in it, and they'll resolve it themselves, which they so far have been able to do. I have to be very grateful.

(Interviewer) How old are your granddaughters?

Well, let's see. One is 18. Another one is, I think, 16. And then the youngest one is 13. Right in the middle. Yeah. Yes. It's interesting to see how they each tackle their own trials and tribulations. But, you know, my daughters and husband both are pretty patient with them. So they do a lot of explain explaining rather than 'thou shalt.' So they're lucky. And I think I'm lucky too.

Systems & Power Timeframe 33:02 >> 35:01

You know, in my day, the world was not our oyster, so to speak. And what I saw among Japanese Americans was that most of them were either teachers or nurses or working for somebody else, a company or something. So I decided to become a teacher also. And I think that going to Cal was a good experience except that I think Cal is more for teachers who want to become administrators, whereas I think the state college system is more for teachers who want to teach the kids and teach in the classroom. So I just wondered whether had I gone to a state college, would I have had a different teaching experience? But I don't know.

[I taught] fourth and fifth grade? Fourth, fifth and sixth. I think there was a combination class. I only taught for like two years, maybe, because shortly after that I became pregnant, and then I saw how much work there was to do as a teacher in a classroom if you're going do justice to the kids in the classroom. And I decided that I'd rather put that energy to it towards the family. So I never went back to teaching after that. And I'm glad because, you know, when I think about teachers today, what they had to go through through all this COVID and before and after, it is, I think it's a real challenge, and I can see why a lot of teachers dropped out. It is not easy to be a teacher under normal circumstances, but, but now, it's it's even more difficult, especially since they're saying that kids have lost so much quality time, that they're fallen, they're falling behind. That's really tough to hear, yeah

Timeframe 35:01 >> 36:36

My husband majored in business at Cal. And so after that, I think he worked for one or two other companies. But gradually he went to GE in San Jose, and he stayed with them until he retired. So there was stability there. And so we lived in Berkeley, and he would have to drive like half an hour or so to get down to his job location. But he never complained. You know, he was he was really he allowed me to he allowed me to do what I wanted to do. And so I used to tell him, 'if you didn't let me do what I wanted to do, we wouldn't be together.' [chuckles] He was not the kind of person that needed to have things done his way. He would accept whatever happened, you know. And he he was like my dad. He didn't really discipline the kids or anything. And that's why we were able to stay together until he passed away. I think many of my peers also stayed together with their marriages. But their kids, I mean, our kids, that's a whole ‘nother story, you know, because I think then more women had more choices, and I think that men didn't always understand what that meant. So I'm glad that it more there's more egalitarian in relationships these days so that both can grow. Yeah, be great.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 36:36 >> 38:54

Well, we used to take short trips a lot, you know, my dad would drive. And I think we made the tour of the national parks in California. I remember we had a 1947 Chevy, and the radiator had a drip in it, so we would have to carry buckets of water in the backseat and try to keep it from sloshing over. He would have to stop every once in a while and pour the water into the radiator. It's amazing, I think, what men and women of those days were so good at making do with whatever was there. That... But that was our trip. So I don't remember seeing the national parks, I remember the buckets of water. [Giggles]. But they would take us, they would plan on taking us someplace every summer because they wanted us to see the world, so to speak, within our backyard.

We saw almost all of the California parks, but I don't think we went outside of the state for that. Oh, as a commu-- as a relative group? Let's see, my dad's sister married a family of ten, and she married the oldest of the ten. And so that family, we would have picnics and beach parties, etcetera as a group. So there would be like, I don't know, 50, 60 people at the beach at the same time. So that kind of activity-- that was our social activity on the weekends many times. And we used to watch TV a lot once TV came on. I remember the first TV that my uncle had for his family, and we saw the small black and white screen. And, that was kind of like our amusement for quite a while until we got our own TV. So yeah, interesting.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 38:54 >> 40:36

Earlier, you talked a lot about being part of the Buddhist community. And before I turn to your experiences in and work with the Buddhist community, I just want to hear a little bit more about what were your connections to the teachings, the spirituality of it all? How might you see it manifest in your life as a young person but also today?

You mean the Buddhist teachings? I think that it has been a big influence in my life in terms of the way I look at life situations. It's like. There's a lot that we can do for ourselves. Complaining about it doesn't always work. It doesn't make us happy. So it's about giving more thought to the way you live each day and all the trials and tribulations that come across your path. And I think that that's held me in good stead, you know. Instead of lashing out at people and places outside of my control, to control that which you can't control. So... I keep thinking about my mom who walked out instead of yelling and screaming at us as a, as a model of keeping peace. Because once you walked out and came back, she was able to talk to us then without losing control. So good role model for me.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 40:46 >> 47:03

Well, politically, I don't think that we ever, and I never felt emotional about it. I think that we tried to make our point whenever we needed to make our point. You know, I remember that two projects or events. Not events, but it was a long haul. But when you look at textbook racism, for instance, it just started out by looking at the elementary textbook for fourth and fifth graders. And when we first looked at, there were five of us around the table. And there were two of us who are Japanese American. Two of them were Hakujin (white) and one was African American. And so we would look at the pictures and somehow we decided that we were going to count every person in that book and found out that all of them were white.

We had no role model for our kids. And so that's what started us on this trail for bringing that to the attention of the state school board over time. And, so politically, you know, we had a chance to go visit with, sort of step-by-step, our local political leaders to say that this is the case. And so they guided us to the State Board of Education. And so we started making our pitch there, and we were joined by people from Southern Cal who were a Mexican American group trying to make their point about not being shown in the textbooks. So the two of us converged in Sacramento at that time. And I think that we made our point and they changed the Ed Code to include African Americans, I guess it was Black Americans? Mexican Americans, American Indians and Asian Americans to be reflected in the textbooks. I haven't looked lately. In fact, I was telling my friend that we ought to check the textbooks now and count the heads and see how how much they've improved, if at all. So that that was one of our ongoing projects that lasted for several years, because it takes a while to go through this, the circle of election of people, and you have to keep explaining to that the board why they have to change the way that they're, that they're doing things. And that was interesting to see success along those lines, you know. I think that's true of any any kind of political movement that one gets involved in. All you can do is do your best.

Well, you know, it was the hierarchy of the PTA. You had the local PTA, and then you had the district PTA, and then you had the national PTA. And so in the local PTA, district-wide, my friend was the chair of a committee, and that's where it all started. We had an organization behind it. It wasn't just two women or five women who are checking textbooks. We had the PTA organization behind us, and they supported us all through, all through the each step that we took to get to the State Board of Education and the changes that were made there. But like I said, I would love to check the books again and see what the count is and see whether there is a reflection of diversity in there.

After we got married in 1966, we moved. We lived in Menlo Park before then. And after we got married, we lived in Menlo Park and then we moved to Palo Alto in 1966.

(Interviewer) And so, how many years do you think you worked on a textbook like from advocating and didn't have two weeks?

Yeah, let's see. So it must have been gee, I taught several years anyway. Four or five years maybe? Because it took us a couple of years just to get to the point where we're wanting to to do something about it. So it took having the numbers in our hands. And then you have the different books. You have reading books, you've got social studies books, math books, etcetera that all had to have reflection in there. But it was good that it wasn't just us. That people from the South were also on the same track.

(Interviewer) What kept you going? You have three, three kids? Yeah, three kids, a lot going on...

That's where having community, you know, comes in handy, because most of the time we would do our work while the kids were in school. So that was not a problem. But once we started going to Sacramento, then we would have to rely on neighbors and friends and others, you know, to watch our kids while we were gone. But, you know, I don't think we stayed overnight or anything. We just did everything during the time that they had the meetings that they held. But, it's exciting, you know, it's as you all well know, I think that it's exciting to be on a crusade, so to speak, or when you're there for a cause of any kind. I think that even if you don't succeed, it's just that the cause is being put on the map, so to speak, so that you can feel like you've made some kind of point and hopefully it'll be picked up by the next person or group.

(Interviewer) Did you ever encounter resistance from local PTA members about these issues?

Well, we didn't, because I think Palo Alto prides itself in being progressive, and so it was easier for us than we may have been for some others. I don't know what happened in Southern Cal when the Mexican American group were trying to make its point down there. But to the extent that they made it up to the State Board of Education around the same time we did, I think that they were successful down there as well.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 47:03 >> 50:50

Well, when we moved to Palo Alto, my kids were like, 5, well, all under under 10, and all in Sunday school. And I remember the minister's wife when she and I first met, said, 'I have someone I want you to meet.' And I don't know why she said that to me, because we had just met. So she introduced me to Jeanette [Arakawa] and somehow we just hit it off! And her... And I did not know she was involved in PTA to the extent that she was, but just because she had this project that was going on there and it was easy to join that as a PTA member, I think that's where where we connected a lot, is that our issues are pretty much parallel there. And then there was a book called 'Japanese Americans: The Untold Story' that was published by Japanese American people. And in it was a disparaging section on Buddhism that had to be addressed and that became a State Board of Education issue because they wanted to adopt that book as a supplementary textbook. And by the time that different people made their... We had people not only from our PTA level, you know, national organizational level, we had elected officials, etc., that we made a pitch to. And they came to the State Board of Education to object to the adoption of this one book. And fortunately, you know, we were successful in not getting that adopted. So, I don't-- I think politics almost becomes the reason to be, and to be successful on any kind of level is very satisfying. Very satisfying, especially when you think that your way is the way it should be.

You know, I'm not sure what it is today, but when we were active, the PTAs were pretty quiet. I mean, they were supportive of the teachers. They did what they were supposed to do. When you get beyond that, you know, to educational policies, I don't think that they knew what to do with us. So when we would go and ask for anything, generally we would get it after we made our pitch. So. But I think that without the PTA support, it would have been difficult to make our point. And I think that it helped to have the title of PTA under our names whenever we went to speak in Sacramento.

(Interviewer) Is that mostly mothers, or mothers and fathers?

No, it's mothers. Mothers, yeah. I think the organization, the spokespeople tended to be men. And I think that even, even the bishop of our national organization, who had a headquarters in San Francisco, attended the the meetings that were held there. He would speak but not use his title, because it would have not been appropriate, and he would have gotten into a lot of trouble. So we had a lot of support from different levels. We were very fortunate.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 50:50 >> 54:18

(Interviewer) So early on you were saying that at Berkeley with the Free Speech Movement and all of that that was happening, you mostly-- you observed it. But here you're right in the middle, in the middle of everything. What do you think helped you find your voice in terms of the type of activism that you would do?

It was more personal. It was at a personal level because I had three kids in school who were not getting exposed to the diversity of contributions that were made by people over the years. So, and to not to have it reflected in the textbooks was easy to support and get behind and not be intimidated by the publishers who were there to make a pitch for their books. Yeah. So when you have a personal stake in it, I think that you're more apt to do things you wouldn't do otherwise.

(Interviewer) Did you carry that forward with you and how you became a founding member of AACI?

That was still kind of going on at the same time because this was a many-year process. So I think that I saw AACI as an as a means to an end because I think to have an organization that's as broad as AACI to be speaking to the board, because we're still doing the textbooks at that time, made an impact I think, as well. Allan [Seid] and I had different things going on because he was also in Palo Alto and we would cross paths. And so you need to have somebody who's willing to stand out and be counted, you know, and that's someone that's always been ahead of me. And that's something that I've never wanted to be in front of. But I would be a support for the issues that that are being being put out there.

You know, I think that initially the the thing that drew me to it was the broad base of inclusion. You know, it wasn't just Japanese Americans, but it was so many. And at that time, there were a lot of Vietnamese immigrants coming in and needing support. Cambodians were coming in. Alan was there at the helm because he was a psychiatrist, and he was looking at what these new immigrants needed but weren't getting. He was willing to go to the state to advocate for it. In fact, I think he got some exceptions made at that level so that help can be given to the newly arrived Cambodians and Laotians, etc., who were coming in at that time. So it was a it was a cause that I supported. I wasn't involved in that. You have to have some understanding of that community as well. But to support AACI in its work towards of making life better for all of the newly arrived is something that I think was a good thing to do.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 54:18 >> 58:20

(Interviewer) Did you see any parallels between what you and your family experienced during wartime and the new refugees coming into the area?

You know, I don't think you can compare it because for those of us who went through the camp experience, etc., at least we were we understood the language. We spoke the same language, and we all put together. Well, it was an education to be part of AACI because, in living in Palo Alto, for one thing, is that you don't see a lot of immigrants and you don't see a lot of different lifestyles there. So being part of AACI exposed me to a whole different culture, like even though Cambodians and Laotians are Asians, their home and lifestyle is very different from Japanese, Japanese American lifestyles.

So it was an education just to meet some of the people there who spoke English in spite of the fact that they didn't grow up in an English speaking arena. So I felt like there was so much that they brought to America. I mean, all the immigrants who came from another country is amazing to me that they can make that big adjustment. The leap from what which was their hometown, to a totally new environment and a new resettlement. It's a lot to be, it's a lot to admire of them, I think. And it's wonderful to meet people from all the different cultures over there. And that's what I think coming down to San Jose does. Is that, you can run into them on the streets here, whereas in Palo Alto, it's very unusual to do that.

Yeah. So I think AACI had a lot, had a lot to offer, and I think it changed as time went on. Because at first, we were brought together as an advocacy group, and we wanted to make some difference at the organizational level. And I think as the years went on, it became more of a service-giving organization, which is very needed too, and they did it in different languages, which is an amazing thing. But I admired Allan for being foresighted enough to know what the structure is, to go to the state and to get released from... You don't have to have a California license in order to treat people from Laos and Cambodia. You can be of that community. And if you have that training back in Cambodia or if you know how to help people of your own community, you're able to do that without a license, but with the okay from the state. So I think that he was very foresighted. He did what needed to be done and he knew what to do. So I think that that was a big help during that period of time.

(Interviewer) Did you know at the time that AACI would become so big?

Absolutely not. It was it was a beginning. You know, when we first got together, there was, what, ten, 12, maybe 15 of us. And I don't know how often we met as a group of 15, but I know that smaller groups of us did different things. And I marvel at how it's evolved into such a community organization that gives so much to them. I think advocacy still is needed and we should be doing more of that. I think I'd like to see more of that, but I think that we also need to give service.

Systems & Power Timeframe 58:20 >> 1:00:41

Well, I think that I have to I have to hand it to my husband, who allowed me to do whatever I wanted, go everywhere I wanted. He would he would watch the kids while I was while I was gone, especially in the evenings. I remember when I started working at the Emporium, to just help bring a little bit of money in. I would leave the three kids who were young at that time with him, so that I could work twice a week in the evenings after he came home. He was willing to do whatever was necessary to support the family, and he never said no to anything that I wanted to be involved in. And I told him one time, [giggles] that we wouldn't be together if I couldn't do what I wanted to do. And he was the kind that he didn't have any kind of need to be out front doing his thing his way, or have me be home so that he could do his things. So I was lucky to have married the right kind of person so that I could do my thing as well. And I enjoyed it. I enjoyed being with the women who were out front and and doing so much.

(Interviewer) Did you see other women who had more challenges with their spouses or with the strictures of just gender norms of the time?

I think that if there were any, they were not active. So, I didn't see women who defied that kind of home life in order to be active, because I think they would have have to make a choice between home life, and or being active. So I didn't see, I didn't see women who are struggling with that. I think in my day for my generation, I think we either were able to or not. And then there was not this complaining kind of needing to strike back in any way. I think that many women sacrificed their needs and their wants for the family. And maybe after the children were all grown, they may, you know, come into activism of some sort. But I think at the time, most people, depending on who their husbands were, had to make a choice.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 1:00:41 >> 1:03:26

Well, you know, in the big picture, just to see Asian Americans and Japanese Americans in particular taking leading roles in terms of getting things done was a marvel to behold, because I think that during the war, our voices were silenced, but-- their voices were silenced most of the time. And I just remember admiring Edison Uno, who was willing to step out there and be counted, even though he was getting a lot of criticism and strikes of all kinds. But, yeah, he is one that I think of as someone who made a difference for me to be looking at being counted, being out there and being able to do things and be okay with being counted.

I think for everybody in general and for myself too, any time there was inequity, I wanted to see if I could be a part of that within my own small world view. And so it started with... that textbook evaluation was the beginning of my involvement in making, making change that would be important. And I think that even though it seemed menial at the time, you know, counting heads in textbooks, I think it all added up to being able to make a point. And being with other people who are also of the same mind and doing the same thing and willing to work hard, I think there's nothing more satisfying than to be part of a group trying to make change at the end. At the bigger level. At the higher level.

Well, I always was impressed with so many people who knew what to say in front of a board of any kind. And I think that to look at the board who had so much control over everyday lives in the community, it's amazing to get up there to make your point. I think that it's great to watch. You know, when I watch television these days with all of the community rising up to make their point, for some people, maybe it's normal, but for many, I think it might be one of the few times that they would want to make a point about something that was important to them. So I think community activism is a wonder to behold. I mean, I enjoy watching it and having been part of it. Yeah, it's great.

Timeframe 1:03:26 >> 1:05:17

(Interviewer) I'm going to circle back. I'm going to circle back for a minute and ask for clarification on two things. Your father worked for Emporium-Capwells.

No, no. He worked for the man who headed Emporium-Capwells. Yeah.

(Interviewer) Because I was amazed you came back around and said that you got a job at Emporium.

Afterwards, yes.

(Interviewer) Can you tell us what you did? So I don't know what Emporium is.

Oh, you know that store? Oh, let's see. Emporium-Capwells was one of the major, like Macy's. It was one of the major department stores in this area. And I don't know how far it spread, but I know that they had a few in the Bay Area. And while there, because I worked at nights, and I don't know how it worked out, but somehow I got what they call, you know, they would have supervisors at night going around and making sure that everybody cashiers were in place, etc.. So we were nighttime supervisors and so there were about three or four of us that roamed the store at night and made sure that all the registers were covered, etc. So I did that, you know, twice a week, I guess, something like that.

(Interviewer) With your father, a part of any of the organizations? The gardeners’ associations?

No, he was very quiet. I mean, he hardly talked even at home, you know. So he was not active along those lines at all.

Systems & Power Timeframe 1:05:17 >> 1:06:50

Well, you know, right after we came back from camp, I had to have a tonsillectomy. And in the hospital, you know, the nurses would come around and, you know, chitchat things, and. And one of the nurses asked, "so where where were you during the war?" So I said "Tule Lake", but I remember, feeling, I don't know whether it was one of my parents or somebody, hearing "Shh, don't say you're from Tule Lake." And that, that kind of stuck with me. And I didn't realize what that really meant until quite, until I got much older and involved with both JACL as well as AACI, and to learn how Tule Lake was a “No-No” camp and something that was not looked upon well by the community. It was-- and my mom and dad never told me that, we just didn't talk about it. So that was an interesting way of learning about Tule Lake and what it stood for at that time, because I was a kid and enjoying life with other children, and came back, and it took a long time before I realized what it meant to have been, had chosen to go to Tule Lake, to get into.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 1:06:50 >> 1:10:32

Well, let's see. I didn't really work that much with JACL. I belonged to them, but no, I was not that active with JACL. Yeah. It was a small organization here. Sequoia is I think all but latent now. I don't know how active it is even today. So I think maybe they may have merged with another group, because it is-- JACL is not that much on our minds in the peninsula.

Thanks to one of the students at a junior high school who did research on the name of that school, which was Jordan Middle School. For social studies I think. They each chose somebody to write about. And so he looked up the man named Jordan who was well known in the peninsula here as having contributed a lot. But also he was anti-Blacks or something. Anyways there was a very big negative that he stood for and was influential in. And when that came to light, the school board was approached to say, "we have to rename that school, it cannot be Jordan." And then Terman was another school, and he was also part of the same group, so that, that school has to be renamed. And they had a third school that was being renamed, and we wanted to name it Yamaguchi [sic: should be Yamamoto]. I think it was Yamaguchi [Yamamoto], who was a soldier during World War Two who was killed during the world, World War 2 doing something that was heroic. That was the name that was going to be given to replace Jordan as the name for that school.

Well, Fred Yamamoto was was well-known in the Japanese American community at that time, but not more recently. And so when his name was going to be for this middle school, the native Chinese people who are large in number in Palo Alto came to the school board to object to that name because it was anathema to them because Yamamoto, Yamamoto right? Yeah. Yamamoto, a general during World War Two, did such heinous things to the Chinese community and the Chinese population that there was no way that they wanted to have a school that was be in their face with the name Yamamoto. So they made their pitch to the school board and and we tried to make the pitch that “Fred Yamamoto is an American.” We're not talking about China, but I think the name itself conjured up such terrible memories for this community that the school board was convinced not to name it Yamamoto. So now it's called Greene, somebody who was more active in local school district. So we still want to have a school named for Fred Yamamoto. And there may be a new school because our population is increasing, although it was increasing for a while, and I'm not too sure if it's increasing right now. So whether we'll get a new school, I'm not sure. But I think that Fred Yamamoto will be a name that will be kept in mind in community anyway, trying to bring it up again.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 1:10:32 >> 1:12:48

I think anytime you care about an issue that's out there and you want to do something about it, then you have an active streak in you, and it's a matter of finding either yourself as a leader of making a change or finding a group that's already out there. Usually you can start with a local community, and I would say that for Asian Americans, AACI used to be an active force out there, but there are other smaller groups forming at for these different issues, and it's a matter of finding them. It doesn't take too much to find someone in that community that can tell you more about who cares about the same issue that you are caring about. And I think anything that needs to be changed ought to have activism around it. Yeah, I think that'd be great.

You know, I think that we can all make a little dent in inequity. But I think that it makes... Well, for me, it makes me feel unsatisfied, or it makes me feel like there's something that I want to do that won't be quelled when certain issues come up. And especially if there's already somebody active in that area, and it has to do with Asian Americans because I think that minorities in general need to be active or else they will get squished. And so Asian Americans in particular, is easy for me, because I would like to have my children have a better life than what we've had, in any form. But I think that being active gives you a reason for, for being. And as you move forward, and if you can make any kind of change, it feels like you're doing it for the greater good. And there's something satisfying in doing that. And I hope that more young people start to feel the same way, too. It'd be good. Yeah.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 1:12:48 >> end

(Interviewer) What are your thoughts about the reoccurring anti-Asian hate activity that's happening now?

Oh, gee, that so tragic. It's almost like the larger community needs somebody to bash all the time. And I think that 'Black Lives Matter' movement has made a big difference in many ways for the African American community, in that people are more cognizant of how they're being anti-racial. And it's easy to see picking on Asian Americans, who tend to be quiet. And who kind of-- in Japanese you say 'Gaman', [which means] you hold it in and and make the best of it, which I think is truly a Japanese cultural value. But I think that here in America, it doesn't work. You get stepped on more, and I think that you have to use your voice and you have to use the power of numbers to make a difference. And that's why I like to see people who are gathering to make a difference. There was a group that went to the border, immigrant coming over, and they put up the thousand cranes. It seems inconsequential, but I think it's culturally a very relevant stand to take and to do something that's visible like that. And I'd like to see more young people involved in making a difference.

(Interviewer) What would your message be to young people who are facing a lot of apathy, a lot of hopelessness, and also not aware of all of the AAPI history of activism. And so this is part of introducing them to that, but what would you say to them who are struggling with their place in activism?

Gee, you know, if they are not involved in seeing leaders among Asian Americans making a difference, I think it's really hard to get people who are apathetic to feel the same urgency. But I think the more times that they see that, maybe it'll start making a difference, because I think that over time, any minority will get stepped on if there's a chance for that to happen. And that's why I think all of us have to be strong and object to any inequity that one sees and get to the root of it, gather people together and, be one with the cause. But it's not easy to do, as you say, once apathy is there, people want to do anything but be active. So I think that you have to be a visible symbol out there, kind of like be in their face because it's going to make a big difference for them too. It'll improve their lives. But it's not easy. It was easier in our day when we had a group with a same mindset. So you can move together and attack these different inequities, like in the school districts in. But it is harder today. I do think so.

Well, I would hope that the younger people would be out there to be leaders and examples for the ones that are coming up. And as difficult as that might be, I think that in order to make change and make wrong things right, you have to keep banging on those doors. I remember, when we were active with getting textbook racism out, we went to the school district assistant administrator there. I don't know how we got to his office, but we had an appointment with him, and I remember his telling us that you have to keep bringing your issues up because otherwise nothing's going to change. So for an administrator to tell us that, you know, he's not going to lead the way, but if the people are out there banging on his doors, then he can do something about it. So I think that that was a message that should resonate with everybody who's active in any cause right now is you have to be banging on the doors of those who are in power, otherwise nothing will change.