(Interviewer) How does she bequeath upon you any recipe or tips?

It's you know, I, I enjoy cooking now more so probably and looking back because of my mom and I just remember growing up, I would help her try to help her cook and stuff even a little bit more so than my sisters did. And definitely my older brothers did not. And so I'm not sure why. Maybe because I was in the middle, but I was trying to help her do the different things in that way. So unfortunately, I don't think I collected as many recipes as I wish I did at the time, you know, because she made amazing apple pie, which I don't know how to do right now. So and things like that. And actually Japanese foods I wish now that I had spent the time to learn more that she was so good at but I think enough to get by. So I guess the inspiration of being able to cook and just experiment and do things is still there.

I guess, for me, what really kind of triggered everything was when I was leaving junior high school. That was in 1966. I went to Elmhurst Junior High School. My counselor was telling me, and she was telling your mom that I should go to this other school called Skyline. And so this, he suggested, you know, might be a better high school for me to go to that school instead of the one I was supposed to go towards, which was Castlemont in Oakland. And so my mom said, okay, you know, better education, better schools, sure, that's a better idea. So she said, you should do that. I didn't know much about what Skyline was, so I just okay, fine, not that I would have to take this bus to school every day and realizing that Skyline was an all-white school, whereas Castlemont was a predominately Black school, and we lived in that neighborhood. And so it was, you know, starting Skyline realized, you know, that that was when Oakland was starting to basically desegregate the schools. And so it was part of the early bussing program that Oakland was trying to initiate. And so being up there, it was really kind of experience going, you know, trying to understand what it was like to be in an all-white school, what that meant and dealing with that and still living in Oakland, in the East Oakland flat lands, you know, down there. So it was a challenging experience in some ways in that way.

(Interviewer) You started talking a little bit about your neighborhood. But can you tell us a little bit more about like some of the defining characteristics and what it was like growing up in that neighborhood?

Yeah, I mean, we we lived in East Oakland. It was like a 90 it near 90th and East 14th Street, basically. And so it was now early on, it was kind of a mixed neighborhood, predominately people of color, families of color. And as even by the time I got into junior high school was pretty much predominately a Black community, that was living in the area and so it was changing quite rapidly in that way. Just growing up, though, you know, being a young kid, you know, there was no real big parks or park areas around. So, you know, for us to have fun, we were playing in the streets, you know, that was our playground basically, and working and playing with the neighbors and doing things like this. So that was you know, I remember doing it. It was my friends in the neighborhood and from school was very mixed. My neighbor, the neighbors one next to us was a family from Mexico, a Mexican family. The kids were about our age in a way. And so, you know, just grew up with then kind of and it was it was kind of interesting because, you know, my mom and dad hardly spoke English and and the Mrs. the next door, she didn't speak English either. She just spoke Spanish. Somehow my mom or her became two best friends without being heard, talking to each other. So they would was, you know, I'm sure she would give us tamales and, you know, tortillas that she would be making. And my mom did, giving her Japanese food and in back and forth, you know, they would you know, their kids would be coming over, would meet, you know, to have dinner and I'd be going over there for dinner. And, you know, there's just, you know, kind of amazing experience. And just growing up in that way. I was really involved with music early on. So my you know, my parents allowed me to do that. So I actually started playing the trombone at third grade. And so for me, playing music was from early on was really kind of important. I really kind of got into that. And so so, you know, most of the grade school and definitely going into junior high school in high school that was doing music was a big part of my main activities.

In our family, just five kids, but there's just a little bit of age gap between especially me and my oldest brother was about eight years or so and then my other brother about six years difference. So and then it was me and my sisters kind of following me. So me and my next sister, which was less than two years. So it was almost like it was my older brothers who kind of got to do their thing. So I was never in school with them and really participate in their activities because a little bit older. And then those me and my two younger sisters. So we were really active little kids all the time. And so it was interesting in that way. Our family was kind of operated in that way. My, my mom again was really made sure that the major Japanese celebrations were always taking place and being celebrated in our family. And so for her, again, to New Year's was really kind of a big thing. But for us, big family gatherings was and, you know, we had an aunt and uncle living in San Mateo, and they had three kids who were my cousins there. So those two families, ours and theirs, would get together mainly for Thanksgiving. And New Year's was the two biggest holidays we would have together. And so it was kind of great to kind of always do that.

Vacations was our big trip. We would I think my parents would try to do almost once a year because those I had an aunt and an uncle, my sisters, my mother's sister and brother lived in the Los Angeles area. So either they would come up one summer or we would go down one summer, kind of alternating, I guess, remember. And so I just remember for us to drive down to L.A., it was like basically seven people in this sort of station wagon or car packed in. And I remember one time actually my father's parents were with us, two of those nine of us in this car or station wagon. And and we were three of us, the younger kids were pretty small, just going down to L.A. to to visit my aunt and uncles down there and a big trip of us to go down because we knew we'd get to go to Disneyland. And so so that was kind of the big thing for us that they would kind of do that. And naturally, also a little bit later, you know, my father loved to go to Knott’s Berry Farm, you know, for me, that was not so big a deal because at that time was not a lot of rides. But he loved to go there for the dinner, the food, you know. So we would a, the other place that we'd go down for in Los Angeles. So I just remember having the opportunity to do at least Disneyland, at least almost every other year, maybe not quite there, but that was kind of the big family excursion for us. Otherwise, you know, it was no…that was... You know, we never I never traveled outside of California, you know, during high up to high school, I believe, you know, because we never went anywhere else.

(Interviewer) Do you remember if your mom had any help around the house? And was there like a consistent schedule of like, this is music practice, dinner's always at five or six?

Yes, because I mentioned my father was rarely home for dinner when we [inaudible]. She made sure that you know us as of kids of we would basically have dinner at the same time all the time. So that was always pretty much happening, especially when we were younger. Actually my older brothers started to, since she was older, he, you know, he left for well, he didn't really leave for college, but he was going to, you see, he went to UC Berkeley and he was commuting. So his schedule was not as consistent to to be with us. And then when my other brother also got out of high school, started college, he went to Cal State Hayward initially he was also not to this schedule. So it was basically during that time it was just the three of us, me and my sisters, who would that my mom was always making sure that we were on a schedule and doing things.

(Interviewer) And you had mentioned, you know, you and your friends would play in the streets. Were you playing basketball or what were you doing? Just a variety of things, you know. You know, I wasn't very sports active or skilled. I guess I was a little scrawny kid that was always kind of the last one to be picked for anything. So but it was just running around having fun sometimes it was sort of like tag football or whatever. Not so much baseball or anything, or just playing catch and just running around the streets basically, and just doing stuff, you know, whatever, you know, everyone's trying to do at the time. I just remember that.

(Interviewer) Do you remember there was a lot of kids in the neighborhood?

There was quite a few in different ways. And in my, at times, you know, my brothers, you know, they would bring their friends over so they would be engaged and stuff. I just remember, like sometimes they would do tag football in the streets, and they would let me kind of play along. But, you know, knowing that I was the one getting smashed up all the time, you know, you know, they would say, oh, you know, stop that guy. And he did they just run right over me. Right? And so but it was it was kind of fun in that way. We did have TV. I mean, we weren't allowed to watch a lot of TV and things, rarely going to movies. I think it was more of a financial thing. So whenever I mean, sometimes it was sort of like big family occasions. For whatever reason, my parents decided this was a movie they wanted to see, and they would take us all. And it was kind of a real special then, and I have no idea why they select a certain movie. It's the one movie that really kind of stands out in my mind from long time ago was the movie Ben-Hur, you know? And so I still don't know why that was a big attraction for them, because, you know, anyways, they took us all to go see that movie. And so and it was just kind of interesting what different things. They kind of chose TV. We were we my, you know, my parents, my mother especially, you know, because she was home with us all the time loved to kind of watch the variety shows and things like this. So growing up was really kind of those things. So I remember like Ed Sullivan Show and things like this, we would they would like to watch my father. I don't know, maybe it's because he worked at a steel plant, you know, and the people he worked with or a lot of folks who were coming out of the Oklahoma, you know, Depression era were, you know, like really into country Western stuff. So my my father loved watching cowboy movies and shows. You know, at that time there was a lot of them on, you know, So watching those kind of series, you know, it was good kind of thing for us, you know, that we would be doing. But it wasn't like we were allowed to or any special programs that we got to watch, perhaps so much, maybe cartoons every now and then. But I didn't I felt I really didn't want or need to have to watch TV a lot. It wasn't like a real need. Again, I was kind of doing music, so that attracted me more.

(Interviewer) And you had mentioned you went to Elmhurst Junior high and in Skyline High School. Where did you in elementary?

Morris Cox. Well, elementary school for me, I remember I guess when I first started elementary school, it was probably pretty much more of a white school and then mixed. And so and and so that's sort of it's kind of like I mean, it was being gentrified a little bit, but it was predominately white school at that time. I just remember also because when I was born, I didn't start kindergarten until January, you know, so so I was kind of in midyear when you were doing when you could start school in the mid-year. And so for me, I and I guess because I didn't I didn't actually understand, I realized because my parents are primarily Japanese speaking, my understanding of English was a little bit more limited perhaps, and some of the other kids, especially how I pronounce words and things. So I didn't realize that. But there was put into like speech classes and things like this because there are certain syllables and things I just couldn't pronounce correctly. And so I still have a problem with that probably. But anyways. And so, and, but I just didn't know what, you know, what that meant. And so I just remember because of that, I actually ended up in kindergarten for a year and a half because I was being kind of held back because they thought I wasn't qualified or able to kind of move on.

And so it was a little bit of a struggle in that sense in order to kind of deal with that. At first the school wasn't that far away. It was maybe, you know, probably around ten blocks away from our house. And in those days, you know, like, you know, like nowadays, you know, parents five blocks away will drive you there. After initially getting started, you know, I remember just having to walk to school by myself and walk home by myself. And, you know, it was no big deal as far as safety and whatever. And that's what we did. And that's you and my sister started going to school. We would all have to walk together. But that was kind of how we grew up walking to school and walking back all the time. And that also existed for going into junior high school to junior high school. Definitely Elmhurst was becoming a more of a Black school at that time. And and so I was really in that kind of transition. So the sense of race and issue was more dominant at that time as far as what was going on. To the extent were there was one incident where I was attacked, coming home from school.

One day I was jumped on by a couple of kids, you know, so and that actually my parents got really upset about that whole process and things. I realized at that time that I needed to kind of figure out how to best protect myself a little bit better. And so when my mom said, well, you should go, you need to take judo classes. So I started doing that. And also, I realize it was one thing in school, you know, you you had to go to PE and do certain things. So the one thing I again, I wasn't that good at baseball or football or anything like that, but I could run. And so I ran basically in the the coach realized that I actually could run pretty good. So and I felt I was best at running distance. I wasn't that great at a short distance, you know, the sprints. But I realized also, hey, I can outrun these Black guys, and they may catching on the first 50 yards after that, I'm gone. And so that was kind of my thing. And then I it was in junior high school I was doing that, running the track on track for the distance stuff. And so I became friends with a lot of the athletes on the team was predominately Black. So after that incident it was really quite surprising. It was those guys who stepped up to help protect me. And so it was it was really kind of a big surprise and awakening, you know, that you don't know who your friends are and that things happen in in a bad way, perhaps. But and yeah, there were the guys and the other Black athletes were the ones that stepped up to say, Hey, if you need help, were there.

Yeah, most of the teachers in actually elementary through beginning of junior high school were predominately white. I remember when you first started junior high school, there was one woman, an art teacher, and it was required that we take an art class. I took her class, so I was in her class was a Black woman, and she was one of the first to be in the schools in that position. I was taking music, so I joined the band in the first year when I got there in the seventh grade, it was so the music teacher who's a white male, you know, kind of traditional in a sense that, you know, I thought a great teacher, he played trombone, which played too. So I thought, That's cool, you know? And so but he left. He left after that first year.

And then his replacement was this young Black man just out of college. And so he was Mr. Bell, William Bell. And he actually was tied the most musical influence to me, a mentor, because he was just an amazing guy, you know, marching band, you know, from the Midwest. But, you know, just really into music, really into jazz. You know, he was a jazz pianist, played trombone also. So, you know, I took private lessons from him. And even through high school, I was studying with him, even though, you know, I left him. And he was just amazing. And he he taught me a lot about, you know, what to think about in music and really kind of help guide me in different ways.

And so it was I owe a lot to him. He's passed on, unfortunately, but he was really great. And in the students around me, in the music department, even in junior high school, was really kind of amazing. Just, you know, thinking back, you know, it's like seven, 8, 9 grade. Some of these guys are really great, you know? And in high school, they we separated out because I went to Skyline, which had a great music program, too, but more Eurocentric, you know, symphony concert band stuff. But my friends from junior high school, they kind of hung in there and doing music, too. And so a few of them ended up just getting into some really top name bands, actually, you know, was Sly Stone's band Great, you know, Larry Graham's band. So they're they're doing a lot of R&B stuff early on.

Yeah, I guess I appreciate the fact, you know, what I had learned in junior high school because of Mr. Bell was really kind of influential on the jazz sides, especially in in getting into Skyline High School, which is they had a great orchestra. So realizing on on the orchestra side, which I became sort of an orchestra nerd, unfortunately, realizing that was, you know, like a whole different kind of world of music, too. And so and the music teacher there, Mr. Adams, Richard Adams, really kind of pushed me to, you know, try out for other orchestra. So there was like a, you know, a youth symphony. The also Oakland Symphony and also the larger East Bay Youth Symphony. So he would suggest you should try out for this, which I did and was able to get into.

And so it was really kind of interesting to kind of deal with that. And then at the same time, I was still connected with Mr. Bell, who was, you know, on the jazz side, which I really loved too. And so and there were some I would he would hold this summer, Mr. Bell would hold these summer jazz clinics. I remember I would always try to go to those. And it was done in the neighborhood, you know, So it was not at Skyline, actually. So it was a whole different environment of playing and different folks playing. It just, you know, it was I just remember it was just I loved doing that and just being able to just kind of shift back and forth, basically. And so to the extent, you know, when I was leaving high school, music was really on my mind and that's what I wanted to do. But my parents know I wanted to go to a music school, but my parents said, you can't can't do that because you're not going to how are you going to live? You know, what's your job? Where are you going to earn money? What's that mean? So which is why I ended up in San Jose State.

(Interviewer) What was the conversation like when you asked or told your parents, “I'm interested in studying music.”

Yes. Well, my oldest brother went to Cal, UC Berkeley. And so again, I mentioned that my other brother had started Hayward State at the time. And so for me, it's a kind of a question and you know that what school to go to. So when I asked, I tell my parents, you know, I'm really going to a music school. The best ones are not in this area, you know, so can I even try to apply? And so my mom, I guess for many reasons and probably one, you know, those the issue about, well, what would you do? Well, how do you earn income? It what kind of job is that? And in future, how would you raise a family? But I probably had the other thing which I wasn't even thinking about was, you know, like how we can how can we afford to go to a to a school? And you you know, I was looking at Juilliard and those kind of schools, basically, because, well, what's going on is, like I mentioned, I was playing with these different youth orchestras in an area. And so those one, one fellow who he played trombone also. So we would both be usually in the same orchestras signing up and competing each other. So I just remember kind of through high school, especially when you're he was first chair and the next year I was first chair, we kind of went back and forth. He was a great player though. Really good. Went to Berkeley High School. And so which had a great music program, too. So I just remember graduating just before getting our high school, asking, hey, where are you going to go? Is this, “Oh, I got into Juilliard.” Oh shoots. I could be doing that too, you know. But anyways, I realized that that was meant to be, so I didn't.

Still deciding. Well, I should look at something else. I was kind of into science, too. You know, I always thought, well, okay, I'll do science something. So I decided, well, I was looking around what would be a great school. And then one thing it didn't want to do was and one reason I was looking at other schools outside is I didn't want to commute from home to go to school, which is like from East Oakland to Berkeley was still a commute for my brother. He had to do, you know, was a little bit hard. I wanted to go away from school and so I realized that financial was the issue too. So San Jose State had a great engineering program. That's far enough that I had to live there. But closing, I could still come home every weekend, bring my laundry home, get some food, you know. And so I said, okay, so, you know, I applied to San Jose State and got into the program down here. So that's basically why I ended up in engineering coming to San Jose State. It was thinking it was the best school for what I thought I'd be going into, but also far enough away to be away. But close enough to still be close so.

(Interviewer) You didn’t stay in engineering for a long day, did you?

One semester. And so, you know, we're always high achievers, right? You know, so I it was chemical engineering on top of that that I entered. And so and actually San Jose State was pretty well known as engineering school even early on. And so IBM and some of the companies were around here and stuff. So I realized from and the math is killing me, you know, I can't do this. You know, I thought I was good, but I'm not that good. And the physics and all this kind of stuff. So to appease, again, my parents, it's okay, I guess, which majors I'm gonna go to pre-med that lasted another semester, you know. And so I just realized it was this is, you know the sciences are not my thing, you know. So although I thought, oh, it's kind of smart now to handle it really is. But also realizing that what was happening at the time at San Jose State, you know, it was more than just the school and the academics of it, but just the social environment of what was going on was, you know, kind of impacting me at that time.

You know, when Kennedy was assassinated, I was in junior high school, and I just remember, you know, I was in class and my teacher came in and announced it to everybody. And so, you know, it was a shock. And so when Martin Luther King was killed, it was when I was in high school and again, going to this all white school and then realizing that I would have to take this bus to go back home, which would be going down into the neighborhood, which was predominately Black. And so and that that bus ride would pass to by right by Castlemont, the high school I should have been going on going to. And so and there was usually kids from Castlemont getting on that bus at that point. And actually those who were coming down from Skyline, we were already on the bus so they would know where we're coming from.

Basically, we were coming down from the Skyline to white school. And so when that day, though, I just remember wondering when we were told that Martin Luther King was killed, you know, they were immediately told, you know, there could be different things happening. So we need to be careful. Our teachers are telling us this, you know, so because we were already hearing when we were on campus that day that there was some things happening at other high schools, you know, like McClemens and other schools and in Oakland, so that we need to be careful on what's going on next. So I was worried that, you know, how am I going to get home? What's that mean that day and what's going to happen? And should I even try to go back to Skyline the next day? And so, you know what? What would I do and what's going to be happening in my neighborhood, which is predominately Black and how can you be treated in that way?

So it was Martin Luther King's passing was more traumatic for me than actually John Kennedy's, you know. So because it was so much direct impact to where I lived and what was going on around me. And yeah, as you mentioned, you know, there's hearing about the the the Third World Strike action is happening on campus and in the Olympics with John Carlos and Tommie Smith, you know, seeing that. So it was just interesting and then realizing later when came to San Jose State that they were there on campus still. And, you know, they were given that time because of what they did, unfortunately. And so not being recognized for that for the good that they were doing. And so it just added to everything to my perspective, it was important at that time.

(Interviewer) So starting from the beginning, we heard PJ’s story. What is your story?

This is mean you guys doing this separately. But anyways [chuckles], so. Well, PJ probably told you we first met. It wasn't in San Jose right. After, as I mentioned, you know, my parents really encouraged me to really go into the sciences versus music. So that's my mindset shifted to do that. So right after graduating high school or actually just even before then, I decided, well, if I'm going to do engineering, I should really maybe get a jump on some of the classes. So so I decided to enroll in a summer session at Cal State Hayward, and I took a I think it was a sociology one class and in a computer programing class because science. So community computers, you know, was kind of brand new and programing was, you know, unheard of in a way. So just wanting to know more about that. So this is a Fortran programing class, you know, really old school data card, you know, punch cards. You had to do these programs. You know, you have a whole stack of a box full of cards to do a simple two plus two equation, basically. And so that was in this class. So the both of us, you know, just trying to figure out how does this work? What do you do with all these, you know, new ideas? And we both were struggling a little bit, so we ended up really kind of helping each other quite a bit. And so that's where I first met PJ So that was in the summer of 1969. That year I left. She continued on there and so and that's when things were starting to happen, both on that campus.

And she had told you what was happening at San Jose State at the time. And then the following summer, basically the summer of 1970, because we met in summer of 1969. And that's when some friends that I knew were starting to do this senior program or what they call the Issei project in the East Bay. And so, you know, some friends I knew from actually growing up and through high school and stuff, they're a little bit older, but just to church basically.

And they wanted to start they were a Cal students, basically, and they wanted to start senior project essay project. And so they were just recruiting and just telling different people were going to start testing in the summer. If you have time, come help us out, you know, be kind of recreational programs are trying to do these field trips for seniors. So that really kind of put my interest and my brother, oldest brother at that time was actually going to Cal State Hayward. And so he was there trying to get his master's in education at the time. So he was also starting to meet some the people who were saying get involved with the Asian American studies and ethnic studies there and happened to meet PJ, who was just weird coincidence. And then and they found out about and actually the Issei project too. So we all in that summer of 1970 kind of came together to work on this project. It was a group called at that time initially called East Bay Sensei, which became this group called East Bay Japanese for Action, but it's actually known as JSA right now, a long time organization.

So in the Japanese senior population in East Bay. And so but we helped kind of start that, you know, with the summer programs and doing things, you know, transferred to UC Berkeley. And the students at Cal were much more actively involved with the Issei projects. So she came more connected with that and I was more in San Jose naturally. But that's we stay connected doing, doing different things like that. So during the academic year, you know, when I was in San Jose basically going to school and since she was doing stuff in Berkeley and continuing and my brother was still somewhat involved, she she got to know my my parents, my family because my, my mother and father got involved with that program, just helping out in different ways to the extent where my brother was inviting people to come to my parents’ home for meetings and stuff.

And then when those activities, my mom was helping cook and do stuff like this, so I got to know them in that way. So it's a kind of a great connection and different ways. We Rican act in a way. So naturally we stayed in touch during that whole time and things. And then when she graduated Cal, she said to go to Japan for a year and she left and I'll still at school at San Jose. And then it happened where I knew she had come back, but then her parents had relocated to L.A. and originally were in Fremont. And then so she had gone back to when she came back to the States, she went to L.A. and then a friend of mine said, Well, Mike Honda said, “Hey, there's this program, there's this internship program happening. And they're looking for minority women especially. So if you know anybody, let me know.” So I think it well, it's, you know, a program actually, I didn't even know it was an internship program. And he just said there's this job at the planning department. And so I told PJ, “Hey, there this is job. You may want to check it out, you know.”

So got her an application, she applied, she got the internship, but we didn't realize, and Mike didn't tell us that you need to be a master's in the master's program in urban planning at San Jose State. And so this was happening like in August of that year, I guess. And so that school was starting like in weeks. Right. So we're wondering how how you get into this program. You're like, so late. And so I'm actually go back to Mike [Honda] says, well, she got the internship, but she needs to be in a masters program. So she can't do the internship without that. So what do we do? So like, don't worry, Mike Honda did his magic and you know, within days, she's an amazing program, urban planning at San Jose State and then with a job at the City Planning Department. So so she moved to San Jose to take on that work and that's how naturally we kind of more got together after that.

Well during college is when I started. It sounds a taiko because I was working doing some youth advisory work with the temple. So we had started that already. And then actually when PJ came up, she got involved with San Jose taiko too with that. When I have left San Jose State, yeah, I wasn't quite sure what was going to happen next. And so and then a friend of mine said, you know, there's this job opening as San Francisco with the Japanese American Citizens League. They're looking for someone, sort of a research assistant. And it was going to be a one-year assignment because they got this federal grant to do this thing. So if you're interested, you know, you should apply. So I didn't have a job so okay. Sounds interesting working for JACL, the National Office.

Not crazy about having to work in San Francisco, but okay, so I applied. I got the job, and the job turned out to be that the JACL got a grant to do evaluation of textbooks in a public schools for content about anything about Japanese American experience and basically Asian American experience. And so my job was to to collect textbooks from all the different, you know, textbook publishers and basically all the disciplines and just search every to see what kind of content there was that it was very little or nothing. But the whole you know, there was a lot of reading on searching because, you know, we had stacks of textbooks that came in to us in order for us to go through. But part of the process was to look at who was doing what kind of curriculum for for schools at that time and how were they being treated or being implemented. And so JACL sent me out on some trips. I was able to go to Seattle, Los Angeles, Denver, Chicago. I think it was a couple other places just to see what kind of programs were existing, how they were trying to get any kind of Japanese American curriculum content within the public schools basically and collect their materials so we could bring it back. And then we actually had to write a final report on that. So that's that was my first job as doing this research job. And those were the national JACL, you know, So it was kind of interesting. There's a little bit of a turmoil for JACL at that time because there was the organization was going through some major transition and so which was kind of good and bad at that.

Just as I was leaving that position, another friend said she was working on this group, called for the group called Pacific Asian Coalition, also in San Francisco, and she said, I'm leaving this job. But so if you're interested in taking over what I'm doing, and they'll be looking for an administrative assistant. And so I looked into it and I applied for that. And so almost right leaving JACL, I took on this other job and that job and, well, refer to it as PAC. Also Pacific Asian Coalition was actually funded by also the federal government. It was a little bit long term. It was actually funded under the mental health section under at that time it was the National Institute Mental Health. And so it was a federal grant that they had. And their basic thing was to it's more of an advocacy group then anything but we were sort of a national coalition. And what we what PAC had created was like nine under the division of what was existing at that time, nine different satellite organizations or to work with different organizations in these nine different regions.

And so we were actually coordinating with them to different things and advocacy, meaning that we were just really although those under the umbrella of mental health, we really use that very loosely what that meant. And so we were going after education thing, you know, media or whatever. Our big project actually turned out to be, as this was about 1978, 77, 78, I was working still there. And so they had started working with the U.S. Census for the 1980 census to include more a capacity of designation of Asian Americans. And so we were able to get into that U.S. Census a little bit more of a breakdown. And so that was kind of our big win for for that organization at that time. I learned a lot because we had to do, I don't want to call it lobbying since we were funded by the government, basically. But we basically had to go around and just talking to a lot of folks in the government. Part of my job was actually to go to Washington, D.C. several times to talk with different people, whether it was within the National Institute of Mental Health or just politicians or different people, just to kind of promote what we're trying to do and push that forward and actually stay in contact with our nine regional outlets in different ways.

(Interviewer) how did you and PJ balance life together with all of your activism and different projects that you were all working at the same time?

Yeah, it was. I think because we both had such a common interest of stuff, especially circled around Japantown because and then taiko was the other piece, and actually kept us together quite closely. I think that was probably the main things that really, no matter what else we were doing and the different activities because there were several other things too kind of happened after that that that helped really ground us. And what was important for us wasn't easy for us, naturally, because, you know, we were just jumping from one thing to the next financially. It was not, you know, like we're not in like any major steady job. So, like, it was really kind of difficult in that way. But we weren't really thinking about money at that time. We really we didn't have a family, you know, we did when we got married, were very poor. And so we had our ceremony and things at the Buddhist temple. We held our reception in the gym right next door, and we actually decided it would be a potluck. So all the family and friends, we asked them to just, if you don't mind, bring food, you know. And so that's what people did. And because of that, you know, and also the times of all the people around, there were a lot of people who just showed up for the reception just but they brought food, you know, So it turned out to be a great party, hold much, many more people than we thought would be there. But, you know, sort of a gathering. Yeah.

(Interviewer) how did you feel coming back to music, coming back to taiko? Well, not coming back to taiko , but like when taiko came into your life.

I felt that was really I realized that was so much the missing link, you know, just trying to do the academic school stuff and that really wasn't meant to be anyways. And I should have listened to or I had early cues actually, that music was more important than some other stuff. Actually. And it was actually my freshman year because when I left high school, as I mentioned, you know my mind, okay, I’ll stop music. I left my trombone at home. You know, I didn't even bring it. So but once I arrived on campus at San Jose State, I'm a freshman, just surviving. I got a call in the dorm saying from the music band director and saying, you know, we're starting a new marching band here at San Jose State and we know you play trombone. So would you like to march in a band? And I mentioned also I was a orchestra nerd, marching band was not something I did or wanted to do. So I said, Nah, that's not my thing. I really didn't really do that. And so as well, you know, we'll give you a semester scholarship. So it says, okay, I'll march. So, you know, it was amazing experience in different ways and, you know, learned a lot, wasn't something I would want to do again, but it was a learning experience, basically realizing that the marching band was so different and structure musically and and also what's popular down in this way as far as that arena of work is the drum corps, stuff that goes on in Santa Clara has huge really famous drum corps. And then stepping into the San Jose State band at that time, realizing that a lot of those folks in that band were from the Santa Clara Drum Corps, the musicians, you know, and and drum corps musicians, I don't know if you know any, but they're fanatics, stir crazy and really dedicated and amazing musicians. I mean, there are some of the best guys ever played with. You know, they just are great musicians, but just crazy on the drum corps side, you know, just it was sort of the military music thing all together in one lump thing, you know. So anyways, so I love the music side, hated the marching side. So anyways, when that ended, it’s like a football season.

My mind's okay, that was great. Got some money. It was. And anyways, so. So that's, you know, for that. So the spring semester started up and then so that's it. Then another band director calls me and says, hey, we're starting to have a pep band for basketball, do you want to play? And I so, well, that's a little bit more interesting, a marching band, but I don't think so. He says, “Well, we'll offer you a semester scholarship.” So get on there. And so I ended up playing, you know, the first year my trombone again, basically quite a bit, you know, and so and I thought that was great fun in just doing that. But you have to realize, you know, when I got out of high school, you know, and actually come to San Jose State, I knew finances going to be an issue. So I was trying to get scholarships or whatever. And so at that time, they had I don't know, they still have or not, but it was a state college scholarship that was available. And so I actually was given a four-year state scholarship to come to south east state. So when I say that, people say, “Wow, that's amazing.” But the tuition at that time, which is $70 a semester, you know, so my state yearly scholarship was $140. So my four year scholarship was less than $600, basically. And so, you know, when I say that most, I think, oh, you folks are saying, $600 barely paid anything, let alone, you know, four years sort of school. But that was what I was fortunate to have at the time.

We started San Jose taiko in 1973. As I mentioned, we started as youth activity at the Buddhist temple. Reverend Hiroshi Abiko was the key minister that inspired us to do that there. And he was the younger kind of knew at the time, actually. But he was the new minister there its first assignment. So he suggested this idea that we use taiko to help encourage more younger people to come back and be involved with the church. And so when he mentioned that now I had been hired on by the church to actually be sort as a youth director or coordinator in a way. And so I in my mind as well, and I didn't know anything about taiko, but it's a interesting idea because musically it's cool. It's an instrument of Japanese instrument kind of tied to a heritage and experience. So it's a great idea. But I also saw it as a community organizing tool immediately since for we can use this as a way to bring people back together and do stuff. So I asked another friend from San Jose State, Dean Miyakusu if he’d be interested in join in to to do that. So the three of us started to group and so musically, naturally, we didn't know anything much, whether you know what to do or what could happen.

Reverend Abiko was kind of the leader on that a little bit. And we were recruiting mainly us junior high school and high school kids. So at the church to kind of join in the class, which kind of happened and this was in the summer of 1973, we actually started thinking about the idea maybe in late 1972, just started talking about what that might be, but really didn't do anything until about the later spring of 73. And then that summer we started to actively put it together, and then September we started this class. We actually immediately had an opportunity to take the youth to this youth conference that was happening. It was actually in San Jose. And to actually do a short performance there just introduced the idea. And so that was in October 1973 when that happened. After that, you know, I started to tell friends from San Jose State saying, Hey, I'm doing this taiko thing and Japanese drums. You know, it's kind of a cool deal if you want to come check it out when you should just stop by. And so we're doing sort of like, like practices or sessions after church on Sundays. And then we were able given an opportunity to come in, I think it was like Friday nights to come and practice in a gym also.

(Interview) How did you end up in Japan, though, with taiko and Kodo?

I was fortunate to do that, and I was interesting about that. You know, we got to meet some of the members of Kodo because they had belonged to another group prior to that South and mid-seventies or so. And then when the organization started in the early eighties, they were launching their first US tour in the fall of 1982 and asked to be interested to help, helped it tour and then know it's like for me is amazing your mind shift because you know, here I hadn't even been playing take up for ten years myself, but you know, establishing this, you know, Japanese American, Asian American context of how taiko is being played and now being asked by this group from Japan to kind of help them take their program on a U.S. tour. And so I just actually jumped at the opportunity. And then once joining a tour and I kind of knew naturally what their program was about and how they operated, but it was so different than actually how we operated. It was very collective oriented in a way. And so but also very strict. In a top-down system. You lose a little bit of irony of how they worked. They appeared to be flat, but there was a different definite hierarchy of of leadership or what they call seniority, basically. So the older students or members, you know, had more authority than the younger members. So that was very often that's kind of typical in Japanese arts especially, or martial arts.

You know, were your your teachers at different levels, you know, towards this whole level how you are you're in the organization, basically. And so and Kodo had that basically. And so just understanding how that operated and what that meant and then but also trying to incorporate, you know, how we thought and what we were doing as, as a taiko group in the United States at that time, Kodo was predominantly male driven organization to head of only a few women, and they didn't even play the drum. They were more the dancers or the singers. And so we were always asking why you don't let more women play. How come, you know, just look at what's happening here in the US, you know, if you're not doing that, you know, why is that? And it took them quite a while. But now you see under stages they have a lot of women on stage and playing key roles now.

And also the way they look out there are very serious in how they play. And a lot of Japanese taiko groups are that way. And we were just having a great time. We just having fun laughing and whatever, you know. And so then some Japan groups think, you know, we're kind of strange because we do that. But anyways, that's does where you played and now you see groups like Kodo doing that too, just having fun on stage. And so it's interesting to know that we are influencing musically, but also somewhat, I guess socially how they operate, you know, as a as their own organization, how they, how they approach gender equity and equity within the company in different ways. Naturally is nowhere near what's happening here. There's still very strict in some ways it's very hard, but it's loosening up. So it's great to know that we've been able to help kind of see that happen and help nurture that even overseas with other groups.

Taiko Peace is really more PJ’s activity and what she launched after we stepped out of the leadership from San Jose Taiko. And, you know, I think I feel that's something that's still kind of growing for her as far as what that means and how it could be really used in different ways. But it's a very powerful tool to use the taiko in a way that addresses social justice and and how it brings people together in different communities that, you know, we didn't think it would really have any impact on. And so and although we all hate Zoom, Zoom actually has brought together for especially for PGA and the tech peace movement people from around the world to kind of sit in on meetings of sessions, you know, with her to kind of share ideas and everything. I feel for her, you know, it's still kind of going and different activities. What it's about is one opportunity that she had that I feel is really kind of pivotal. And that's when she was invited to go to to Jerusalem to to do workshops over there. And so and when that happened, you know, just to be in that kind of environment, that whole situation and to to really, you know, work with younger women mainly in that environment over there was just it was an eye opener for her.

It just and and also how the taiko and the music and dance could be used in a in a culture and a community, a country that had no idea what taiko is all about. And yet it brought so many people together at the same time. It was just amazing experience. And so that's what I feel. What she's doing with Taiko Peace can do is really again, it's an offshoot of what we've been talking about, how Tyco has can become the voice or this this activity that draws so many other people together in different ways to help unify us. And so I think that's that's an important part of what's going on right now.

(Interviewer) And can you tell us a little bit about because that's where I kind of I felt like came into relationship with you, which is the, the Multi Multi Cultural Arts Leadership Institute. How did that happen for you?

The MALI program. Yes, the Multicultural Leadership Institute. Well, you know, when I became the executive director for San Jose Taiko naturally was struggled to try to really learn more what it meant to be in that role, administrative role to learn more about how to fundraise and to manage an organization and to be competitive within the arts community here in San Jose or just anywhere. So, you know, I talk a little about that, how it was really important to help educate, having to educate more people, especially funders. And so one thing we're starting to realize is in order to have the opportunity to be able to have a voice, you know, so important to be at the table when funding decisions were being discussed or decided. And so I was able to get to be, get into some leadership programs, which kind of helped me learn things. But realizing that all these programs were just really kind of more general arts leadership programs. It wasn't specifically for people of color. And so information was great, but it really didn't really address how we operated in our style of way, which was really different than, say, that symphony or an art museum or the ballet.

So realizing that we needed to create our own our own program to help educate more people of color, artists in that kind of position to to understand how to deal with that. At the time, there was only a couple of us that were really being asked to a participate in different things like this Raul Lozano and I and Tamara Alvarado. And so we were really, wow, we're looking around is the same three of us get asked or show up at these meetings worse than anyone else. And and this is getting hard to do to represent everybody else. So the idea to start a leadership program became really kind of important because we felt we needed to build a larger network of people. And so we were experienced instance, Raul and were in a couple of leadership programs. In 2004, five and six, we got in, I got into American Leadership Forum. And so which is a great experience. You know, it was like a cross-disciplinary leadership program, a little bit high end, but a little bit expensive. But I got a scholarship, but it was a predominately white organization, but just trying to deal with what that meant and again, transferring that knowledge base to how it was to work as artists of color in the admin world.

And so we decided that we needed to start somehow our own program, but we needed funding. So Raul, I wrote this position paper basically, and we decided we'll take that. And just shop it around to some of the funders. So we got to know. And so we went to the Packard Foundation, to Hewlett Foundation. Unfortunately at that time they both said, like, it sounds great, but I don't think we could do anything right now. Then we approached this one person who was at the Knight Foundation, which was just kind of starting up a little bit or becoming more active in the San Jose area. And so this guy, David Mills, was the local program officer, kind of new to the job coming from the tech world and everything. But so we were kind of hesitant. Well, I don't know if you can get it for the arts of artists of color, so but anyways, we got a meeting with them, told them what we were trying to do, explain it to him as he got excited. So we said, Wow, okay, cool. So but he says, you know, in order for this to work, you need to partner with somebody because I don't think you could get this funded on your own.

And at the same time, Raul and I were working with this startup called First Act, which involved for other people Connie Martinez, Ann Ski, Bruce Davis and Richard Ball. And first act was this the six of us were trying to look at how to really reimagine what the downtown art scene look like, you know, physically and organizationally and so and of those folks all came from different areas of how that may fit in and so in but First Act was also talking to the Knight Foundation about a large grant. And so Dave said, well, you know, you're involved First Act. This seems like this MALI thing seems perfect for what First Act should be doing too. So if you could combine it with First Acts, then there's a better chance that both of these things get funded. So we went back to the First Act, people saying this is an opportunity, but we need to, you know, we're being told that maybe we need to partner this with first act, with this application. And so they all agreed it was a huge grant for us, but a launch, MALI basically for three years at that time with, with us, we started to talk to them in 2006,7. So we led the first class in 2008. I think the grant was given to us in late 2007. And so yeah, the first MALI classes, 2008.

So we were just really fortunate. You know, we had first act as sort of the organization to help kind of manage that money. We also had a great funder, the Knight Foundation, which put in a lot of funding to help support it. And so and then we just had to figure out how to execute basically. So we scrambled to put the program together, you know, curriculum wise and activity wise and actually finding recruiting a class to do that. And we we knew we had it for three years, which was great. So in my mind is, okay, if we could get ten, 12 people per year, we have about 30, 35 people in this network, That'll be great. It's more than three, right? And so I had no idea that no, I'm recruiting my 15th class basically, so that it's lasted that long and when the School of Arts and Culture started up, we moved the MALI program to the school. Tamara actually went over to start to lead the school as the executive director. So it made sense to do that. And so that's why it's under the School of Arts and Culture right now.

Definitely the question of leadership training is still, you know, really I feel important. And because of the MALI program I'm so involved with again right now, which is been a great experience to come back to that in a leadership role to direct it. And it's the mere fact that there's so many other artists that we could use that kind of help and support and and engagement and just to be, you know, really grow the network even more. We have about 145 alums in the program now. So it's really come a long ways naturally. But what's exciting is when something comes up, and we notified the network to get the responses, now it's just amazing versus what struggle it took just to get calling some people, please come to this meeting, you know, voice your opinion and no one shows up, you know, and so just more people understand what it takes to do things.

So that voice and that opportunity, I think, needs to continue still somehow within Japantown. Naturally so it's a fear of how the neighborhood is constantly changing because there's more apartments or housing being put in now. You know, there's been a lot in the last 20 years, especially, fortunately, most of the storefronts have not really changed as far as the physicality of what it looks like, but definitely the content to stores there. The businesses have changed. The longtime family businesses that were predominately just Japanese and Japanese owned or Japanese American, all those families have closed down their stores because no one else in the family wants to take on the business anymore. So, you know, we've lost several because of that. And so how do we kind of continue those stores that everyone feels is really important in the community to make sure that Japantown exists in a way that people would like to? And it's so it's hard because when you talk to people in a larger community, they'd say, well, what do you want to see in Japantown? Or What do you miss? And they always reminisce about, Oh, I remember, this. I know there’s the tofu shop. There was a drug store. Those are distinct, different things. So it's none of those are here anymore. And so I always ask, Well, yeah, but why do you think they're no longer here and say, Well, I don't know? Then I ask, “Well, when I was here, how often did you come and visit those stores? How often did you go to the drugstore to buy something, or did you go to, you know, Walgreens or Long's drugstore instead? You know, you know what? What did you do to really kind of support the Japantown businesses or how often do you now come to a restaurant on here?”

You know, we lost a tofu shop. So how often did you actually come to Japantown to buy tofu before, you know, let's say, well, maybe once a month, maybe every other month, you know, wasn't really that often. So I feel that people when you when you really feel you need to have something or supported, then you need to engage in that. And so how do you get the community to really support what's existing in order to make sure lives a long life is always hard? But the other piece now, I guess, is how do you find people to take on or continue the succession planning for all these businesses? Because unfortunately, historically they've relied on family and that's not happening anymore. So who in a community is willing to step up? Who will be the next manju shop owner. Who will be interested in opening another tofu shop and learn how to do that and do that hard labor to sell, or who will even open another restaurant in Japantown to be successful? We've lost some restaurants recently, so I don't know. And they're gone. They're not going to come back. They'll storefronts won't even be restaurants anymore. So that's the shift that's happening. And so how do we kind of sustain that and also continuing and passing on the information to the next generation or younger folks? And what's the best way to do that and to bridge the gaps between organizations?

Because every community, no matter how tight knit you think you are, there's always conflict going on. So, you know, mitigating the conflicts is always kind of an ongoing challenge for everybody and just making sure that people can work together and and be cohesive in that way. So I hope within Japantown that, you know, that it could continue, that different organizations will step up, different people will step up kind of do that. San Jose, I feel, need to kind of understand that San Jose has been in the past as far as development and prior redevelopment. So focus on what they feel is building downtown as the center of the city and thinking that, you know, we could be like San Francisco, which will never be and never is going to be. So I feel San Jose is more it really is a city that spread out and the and the vibrancy of what the city is is that we have different centers or cultural pockets to really represent what the city is about. And it's not downtown. So whether it's Japantown, you know, the Mayfair Little Saigon, whatever it might be, those are all, you know, different pockets. There's a little Portugal, little Italy, even places like Willow Glen, perhaps, you know, different places where that's where communities really kind of gather now and seem to be. So how do we kind of really elevate what those communities and how can the city really support those entities, especially the ethnic cultural ones, better than what the has been doing the past?

And so, you know, they put a lot of money into development, you know, hotels and hire high rise housing and things like this. But, you know, very little money is going to the small business owners who are, you know, trying to make these communities really survive, basically, unfortunately. And so there needs to be a mind shift change on that. That's a tough one. That's that's ongoing for us all. And within the art scene, that's kind of the same thing. You know, it's like, you know, how do we get the city to recognize and it's slowly happening now. It's been a challenge to say that, you know, historically, you know, before all the money, some major amount of money is being allocated to grants were going to the major, you know, just a handful of the big organizations. So the smaller organizations, especially the multicultural ones, got very little. There is a shift now to give more money or support, multicultural groups more. But I think, you know, that has to step up even more. And so in general, the arts funding, it's really sad for San Jose considering it calls itself the 10th largest city in the country.

When smaller cities invest more money in arts, then San Jose does. So how does the city or the community support the arts? It's really kind of the question mark. I think that's being worked on. Part of all that discussion. You know, there's a dialog about creating these cultural community centers are cultural entities, districts basically, and so, you know, recognizing the Mayfair SOFA district downtown and Japantown and Little Saigon, whatever they might be, how can a city really support that idea? Again, it's not just idea or a name, but financially, you know, put some effort in to really making sure those communities are existing because that to me is what in the future is going to bring people to the city. Because realizing the art scene here is not the symphony, ballet, opera. People come see the other stuff that's down here, you know, and and that's what we need to make sure people understand and see.