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Digital Archive

Loc Vu

Date: March 7, 2023
 Interviewer: Yvonne Kwan and Ellina Yin
 Interviewee: Loc Vu (1933 - )

Loc Vu is the founder and Executive Director of the Museum of the Boat People & Republic of Vietnam. He has dedicated his life to preserving the history of Vietnamese refugees. Loc, a former colonel in the Army of South Vietnam who came to the U.S. with his family in 1976, also founded the Immigrant Resettlement and Cultural Center (IRCC) with the intention to provide educational and social services to the thousands of Vietnamese refugees who came to Northern California.

Transcript of Loc Vu

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Timeframe 0:00 >> 3:07

My name the Loc Vu. Vu is my family name. Loc is my name. And my birthday, I think, May 4, 1933, in very far away: North Vietnam, nearby Hanoi.

I have my sister. That's all.

(Interviewer) Older or younger?

Younger.

And my father passed away about 40 years old. And my mother, I bring her into the United State. Passed away about 20 years ago. And then my parents, they meet each other by introduction of the some friend. And my mother, the country girl, go to the city working in my father family and that that that is the time they met. And some friends put them together. They become my parents. [chuckles]

My father. My father. He working making shoe, shoes, and the whole family working on make the shoe for the people. And. And we have a store, in the north of Vietnam.

(Interviewer) Where was he born, his birthday?

I don't remember that.

(Interviewer) And your mother? Do you know where, where in the country was it? Near Hanoi as well?

My mother. I don't remember that. But I know my mother passed away when she 82, something in here [San Jose, CA].

My mother just know how to read a little and write. Not much. My father, maybe have about seven, six or seven years in school.

We we living in the city, in Vietnam, not in Hanoi. Hanoi, the capital. Not big is my hometown. The the the the the the economy be the big city on on Vietnam by that time.

Timeframe 3:07 >> 5:40

(Interviewer) And in your family did they go on vacation or what was that like?

I never hear about that. When I was the very young, I go out to play with our friend, the group, ourself.

Street boy, do everything, make things, also. We we play football.

When I about ten years old, ten-year-old. I help my parents to making shoe.

(Interviewer) How did you learn? Did they teach you?

Oh, they just looking for another people, and I do it. But I think I am handyman. I learned very fast. And today I think I am the number one worker in [inaudible] there.

We do not have a TV by that time. And I don't hear about TV. Only about forty year from now. Yeah. Radio sometime. But we don't have a radio. So we have nothing. But we enjoy that. We enjoy that time. Yeah, we. We have to make something for ourself to play. We we do not feel, uh, we are poor because we had don't have a shoe for children.

That's okay. That is the that the the very special time for me.

Why do you asking my friend? I don't have any any friend during [from] that young time today. Because they all passed away. But we play on the street every every day. I think it take more time, for me to remember. I, uh, nothing special.

Timeframe 5:40 >> 13:01

I go to school in elementary, 6 years old until elementary.

Six years old, elementary to go and to 6 to 10 or something. And then from then we have another class and then we go to high school. High school. And this is the time, by the end of World War Two, and they stopped the war in Vietnam. The war in Vietnam stopped right after a few years.

Right after World War Two. And we have to move from place to place to go to school during the war time. And I was about fifteen year old or something like that, fifteen years old. Everybody on that time, let's say about 20 years old, they have to decide. The France come to Vietnam and the France wants to dominate Vietnam, to occupy the whole country and the communist want to lead Vietnam. So between the France and Communists, the 20-year-old Vietnamese have to decide if they follow the French to fight with Communists. This okay, but some other 20 year old follow the Communist to fight the French. The two sides have what, have a good reason. Communist or the French dominate and the people in the city with more education, they go to French side. The people in the country go to Communist side for ten year.

I am 15 year old, and I don't know much. But finally my family go back to the city, follow the French because that we we feel Communists too much. If the French get control the country, we might kick the French out. But the Communist take over, we have a difficult time that is as I think the very special story by that time in my age. So we we go back to the city and after that, Geneva Agreement make the end of the war, divide the country by two. That is a good story to tell and by that time I was a 20 year old. We go from the north to the south. This is a very big history for Vietnamese because the 1 million people from the North, back to the south. The country that the divide by two and with the help of American, we kick the French out then the the the south in the south that did, uh, that did, that history make me become mad. 1 million people moving to the north, to the south. And we cannot say who win the the war by that time, we divide the country. If we are lucky it look like the the Korean, now. The Korean North and South. But the the North continue to invade the South.

(Interviewer) Okay so between 15 and 20, what happened?

That is the time we are living in the war. During the war between the French and some Vietnamese. Against the communist. By that time, if you are reading the Vietnamese history you hear about the very big battle at Điện Biên Phủ, Điện Biên Phủ. They still talking about that now. And uh, I, during the time I 15 years old to 20 years old, we living in the countryside, that mean control by communists and we learning something. How difficult to live under communists by that time. Okay, I, I still learning, I still under, high school by that time, yes. We were very difficult. Very difficult. One side we have control by communists, another side we have under, under the bomb of the France airplane or something. We have to try to survive. Okay, and, that the time, the time I 20 years old and people have to move from the north to the south. I join the army.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 13:01 >> 14:35

(Interviewer): Was there anything else you could do other than join the army?

No. Just go to school and like a schoolboy, nothing. Nothing very special.

Well, when I 10 year old to 20 year old on my special skill, writing, reading and writing. My school education not too high. But I learned a lot of thing by reading and writing. I am, I become a good person about thinking, learning in my life and writing. And I have about, let's say, about 17 year old, something like that.

I write, I have a very high. Very high. High, Yes. Short story I sent some my short story from Hanoi, from Vietnam to Saigon. And they get very high a lot of money at that time. That is my very proud during the time I was young. I am writer.

Systems & Power Timeframe 14:35 >> 18:42

And so I joined the army. I go to let's say look like West Point of Vietnam. Đà Lạt. 20-year-old and I graduate from Đà Lạt school. And I learning very good on that so I, I, I graduate they say second lieutenant, second lieutenant, and we assigned to the unit in deep South of Vietnam.

I am the man the the country look like us, so different from north and south but we have a million people in from north to the south, so it take time to mix in together. But I still the boy from the North, that’s a little different but it's okay. So I go to the the south with my unit and I meet my wife so by that time the marriage between the north and south is something not very often, but ok ok. but I have a lot of memory to welcome more people in from the north to the south because of they have two year to finished the move in. So on on 1954 until 55, there are more people to come.

And my unit there now on 1 million people from north to the south and the also 100,000 people from the south back to the north. No, no, nobody know about that. Nobody mentioned about that. They just talking about the people from north to the south, but they they do not remember what they don't care about.

But there are a lot of people from south go back to the north when they divide the country. And because I am in the Army in the Deep South. So I, I, I, I see they are moving like 100,000. They are Communists, they are Communists. They and they say that the I remember as they were leaving they also salute people goodbye And they say like this, two more year we going to reunite but the North. So I some time I go to Saigon and welcome people from the north and I'll go go down to Deep South Vietnam to see the people and say hello and go back.

Timeframe 18:42 >> 20:36

And by that time, I remember very, very special thing, the man, named the Lê Duẩn, the man named the Lê Duẩn. Well, he are the group of the South. He bring the family to the the boat the Communist boat and he do not go to to the north, he stay. This is a man. Do you know the man named Hồ Chí Minh? Very famous. But not. Not, not that guy. Lê Duẩn, he's the man who make the war in Vietnam. He's the man who volunteered to stay back like to see what we going to do in the South. He even moved living in Saigon like a old photo. But in the something like that he know everything and he after a few years he go back to the north. He controlled the highest group of the communist and he the one who decide to invade the south. If not Lê Duẩn, by north and south will be like today that is very very special to me. And I learn the history like back to so many years ago like that.

Systems & Power Timeframe 20:36 >> 28:21

Well so I am in the infantry for more than ten year. Platoon leader and committee, Commander committee and I get to Captain, Second Lieutenant, First Lieutenant, captain, and when I become Major, the highest cred, they move me to Saigon and I go to learn about logistics in because I, I I know French so when I go United States, they said that they they only assigned me French speaking group or something like that. I learned the in the United States some time and I go back to to Vietnam. I am not go to the field. I working in the look like Pentagon in Vietnam, and I am very working hard man and also they assigned me to work with a lot of American advisor and we become good friend and our American friend. They have to understand me so when I say something, they don't understand. Then they have to go around at the other people and ask what the colonel say. And but my my life going up, also I'm famous in in in in Headquarters because of the the Americans say so. Well you'll know that the American advisors have a lot of power is they are clean and they they say something good everybody have to believe that. I still have a a lot of recommendation from United States and they, so I I become Colonel that because the advisor say so. The officer tell my boss why don't you put that guy up something like that.

And also because I, I am not the fuel commander, but I have to go with them. A colonel for United State to get come to Vietnam only one year they want to do something on that year. And they want the good thing and they get more creds up, more decoration and if the soldier they might not like to do anything even during the war time but this officer American officer sees they want something, they work hard. They want something only one year they want to bring back something. They love the war. Every officer love the war. The war is a something for men. And the I work with them. I have to work together. They want to go to the field. So don't care anything. I have to work with them. But after a year they move. I have another guy, more Vietnamese, more everything I have. So for over ten years I have to go from another man to another man. Work very hard. So that the that it make me even I don't want I have to be good person. Sometimes they ask me to fly helicopter, I say okay but I survived that and finally finally they assigned me to head officer a very special unit they name is a Black Fighter.

Black Fighter team. Black Fighter team is a group of so many US army officer from Pentagon they come to work with me about shipment. All of world different people and they working very hard. I am had of the Black Fighter by the and I am the one who make something like a Vietnamization Vietnamization the war but we we fail. The the American advisers they are so good they love the war that is a key thing for the for the fighter. You cannot win the war if you do not love the war. But they love that the more morale, moral benefit everything but the the Congress and the government depend on anti-war, something like that. We fell.

Systems & Power Timeframe 28:21 >> 35:23

Interviewer: And so, when Saigon fell, what happened with you and your family?

My my wife, she was working for a hospital, you know, And on the very last day, she's head nurse of the small group, group of small group on this dispensary on the new floor and the American soldiers what they knew they were to bring my family out of Vietnam before I think a two or three day before the last day I stay behind that but on the very last day, I am in charge of the US, we call that's the US Army boat.

Both we have army boat, and we both we bring our group. We follow the Navy, the Vietnamese Navy, out of Vietnam on after the the the last president decides not anymore. After that, we are we are waiting to hear about that. And we get out and we move out. And the rescue by the U.S. Army, US Navy that’s how I get out.

I stay at Guam island for a month during that time with my family at Camp Pendleton in here. So we meet together and finally my family together at Camp Pendleton my my colonel and general who is that advisor for my unit before at Washington DC, and I follow them up there and that is the funny thing that they're the one who working for the Army even General Corps but they do not know anything about welfare and food stamps. They don't know about that. And they cannot help us. But I am the writer I write so many article on the newspaper of Vietnam by that time and now friend in California they say that the California is the first state we help the immigrants. So we move here and they these are very good system because this daughter know something wrong because a lot of people get welfare and food stamps for a few months or even for a year and they become independent. And then everything ok.

And I go to county, this county now I asking for job I still have friend there, sees that the chief of the department of the take care of refugee and she say Mr. Vu you'll not qualify for social worker or something you cannot pass the some question or something. And I ask her what are we going to do now? But you may be the director of the program that the the well how I get the money? $40,000 to open the small unit and help the other? I say okay so by that time the county had a special program name IRCC that mean Indo-Chinese Resettlement and Cultural Center that is the program. So when I take over I I make a nonprofit agency. I interview a man and he say how many money you have? Well, I give you all $40,000 and you do everything. And he's he's the one working with me. He's my assistant, job developer, picture, ESL or something. Now, small group was what group?

And then they have a very special member names CETA (Comprehensive Employment and Training Act). I don't know CETA and the CETA people and get a part time. I recruit somebody and after a few year IRCC sometime, we get $1 billion and I, I just keep my job very limited money, that's okay because my wife working for American Red Cross so we have okay. So this the IRCC continue until today look like no more nonprofit for refugees still survive until today but we because working with the refugees so we have a so many the thing so we make the museum.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 35:23 >> 41:03

Like a writer. I have to say that I want to bring my country here. But actually, as a soldier, I left behind the cemetery so I make something down there. I am, the man one time in my life. One time to build cemetery in Vietnam.

Before that the soldier passed away at each village, at each city, They stay there. but about 60 years old 1960 we have to think about we have something like Arlington in Vietnam. I. I approved the plan to see what is the location and then we build that. So when we leave Vietnam, I have 16,000 guy we leave behind over there. But to build that museum we we bring the idea in here. I working for the, for my, program. It almost 25 years. 25 year from 1975 until later now. But today, no more. No more involved in the social because no more refugees to come.

The refugee come during 20 year from 1975 until 1995. That the important. So during that time, so many refugees to come. We have two plan. We have to help people to come to the high sea to rescue them, bring them here. And the ESL job development, everything. I my, my, my company, my nonprofit agency help about 35,000 people in here that did a very, very, very good job and we get the money from federal from county to help them and is nonprofit agency.

We look like a worker have to work to finish the contract. Help people eat very good. But after that, the refugee not so many people come. And we also help the refugee from another, from Europe, from another country. And we continue that for five years after that. And no more refugee, no more people. But I would love to working for the for the museum. I think that it is the one and only in in the world now and you have I feel that the the museum is a very good lesson to the future. The Vietnam, the Vietnamese people have a so many year of history but no museum like this one. we we divided country no more museum we go to north to the south no museum so many and now we have almost about 3 million in the United states but it make a lot of power.

The Vietnamese now in Vietnam, they have almost about 100 million people. Nobody know about that. The Vietnamese in Vietnam population more than France more than England, more than any other small country in Europe. But they need to to improve and 3000 Vietnamese in here make a lot of the difference of that so museum is the one thing that neither answer you so so we now the Vietnamese like a Cambodian like everybody now we become a kind of a people in the United States, the social service - everything for everybody.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 41:03 >> 45:33

(Interviewer) Alette [Lundeberg] said that you put on a an exhibit for Congress a long time ago in DC.

Oh, not, not not not that big a small. Oh, we just sent some picture some artwork to Congress, you mentioned about I left or something. Yeah.

(Interviewer) Yeah. So when you sent the artwork you sent it to Congress.

Okay. Okay. Some of them, I just show them who are refugee. Welcome to United States. What they are doing now that that that show them because to the the the Congress, the United States help the Vietnamese in Vietnam War, and after 15 years they they they cannot continue they turn back to the Vietnam war and they open hand for the refugee.

Okay that's why I'm sorry to [inaudible] and we may not to stop complained about the Vietnam War but we say what you help the refugee and what they are doing now we show them that that that the thing and it is a very good thing because the we show not to Congress but we show to some other and President Jimmy Carter get the message and he do very good for refugee very good and he also send me a message directly.

So I think I will give you my magazine. It were a lot of everything. After today, I will give you more information. Even you finished your brand.

Most of the thing we try to educate our community and learning what we get from the world because the - everybody here have a somebody passed away during the war and 200 more than 270,000 of refugee cannot make it here. Boat people cannot make it here. So I have one side the boat, the other side the the soldier let people remember that and the Vietnamese community, I think that maybe you may in the same situation, they are come from the war. They survive the war, they have so many different idea and they cannot change. They do not have open mind right away. That is a, people tell me how to connect with with the younger the we think that is be education for the people we have the first priority. The young girl, my children we cannot do right now they have learning how to become American first. We have more than 100,000 Vietnamese old people down here. So many problem. Still have problem even come here took the year for the still however they are victim of the something terrible before that.

Systems & Power Timeframe 45:33 >> 48:47

(Interviewer) What do you see as the problems?

Yeah different idea. Still again communists and if you do not against communist you not enough for them they do not love and then then then they they changed. They also change and but I tell you one more thing. The American do the same, we living here more than 40 year but recently the two party not together to to to help the United they fighting too terrible and then the Vietnamese to divide these divide too. The Vietnamese can make a lot of difference in the local area but cannot do anything about the whole country we have a very few vote for president I think.

It mean nothing. And so we have to keep them down on that. But but very difficult. Very difficult. I, I, I working for the group who not not nothing. Cannot go with the president. He’s the 45…the 45.. But the more you attack the other group, they make them more problem for us. So we have to slow down that. But it would be very difficult. But if we can solve the we learning that that not only our group make trouble but the American have a problem too. But I, I tell you that they do not kill each other that the better because a different idea they have not the entire world terrible. So we are lucky okay without so we have a problem in our community. We try to cut them down; it is the more more difficult than everything today we have that.

Timeframe 48:47 >> 54:20

I have I have four children: three girl and one boy. Okay. And they are okay because that I'm very lucky. Because as they living around here, not very far away.

(Interviewer) How old?

60 old. And and so on. And maybe did not look very good but the if we have the children around you when when you get older I think this is, that is my happiness.

(Interviewer) When you were working with IRCC and doing all of this work and they were younger how did you all manage everything?

That it is it is also very hard on that. But for example, I have a different idea about how to work with my job, and my children support me. But not support what I am working so I just try to to get along with them and they are okay. But if you want to do something special, you cannot asking for the children to support all the way. That is, what we in that situation. My four children born in Vietnam. I bring them here. They are 15 year old or something. Fifteen year older, you know. They go to some school there. some San Jose High School then Andrew Hill. Who was on the. Yeah. And some of them graduate from the UC [sic] San Jose.

(Interviewer) Was it difficult at all because there's cultural difference?

I don't think so these okay because a California look like a not so difficult and like at the other. Grandchildren these are grandchildren different from my children, to that that that these are that need to we make something simple that very simple our generation so different with people our children and then the children different the grandchildren and so on we we have as it were situation our our grandchildren have was so so different idea and one of my my girl my my my my grand grandchildren to go she 21 year old and go to go to it university in Los Angeles and then decide to stop go to school for one year, just one year to see what we want to do. Maybe, after four year, get the wrong thing. Oh yeah. And she just tell me that the grandpa, the American culture is not good. What country you think that have the good now? She say Korea. Haha, well why? Well, they they have a very good music or something. Okay, so show me- I see four and and five guy. Well I decide to spend the year to go to Korea because one of the other friend go to Korean university learning there. I don't know what they learning So I, I take a look on the computer. I see look like the guy from Korea and dance the way I said doing they just change the little bit. That's the sun.

(Interviewer) How many grandchildren do you have?

I have a five.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 54:20 >> 58:35

(Interviewer) You have teachers in the community that help you show you, you know, maybe how to best navigate the county?

The No no. Because I, I listen to them but I look like I, I do not learn something from them. That because the me, not everybody like that. In the United States, different form California. And talking about us I think even we are Asian but we are not, not yet together. But the the next generation will be okay Asian. We will get together. But right now, right now is not they not really together. Time to change everything. But it take time. Time it takes time to change the the white people they take 100 years... And become the white together hundred year more than that. When the Europeans come here, they are different group they are not the white and it take more than 200 years they they become the white that it you learned and we are the yellow it take another hundred year to be a yellow not Cambodia not Vietnamese need more time more more time.

I'm not have the answers yet but the Black people get together sooner because they they have almost the same culture and they have the same history that is something we have to think about that the first American come here they kill each other in Civil War. They are both white two side and also they they kill each other in Civil War, not because the the Black because of income because the money, because the power not not not because that they love the Black. No one side they have a working in the team. One side working the farmer. And if the farmers become rich because the Black, they kill each other. They from Germany they from England they put and they not together but after two or more two or three and now they are together. The yellow take more time.

Systems & Power Timeframe 58:35 >> 1:00:22

(Interviewer) Have you ever experienced racism in San Jose?

About about what in San Jose

(Interviewer) Have you experienced racism in San Jose? discrimination?

No, not not I think we are okay here most more only small incidents Okay. Okay. We we we the Asian more comfortable in here than any other. You know you get the deep white some other they are afraid to go to the Asian group they don't know. So we have a Vietnamese town, we have a Chinese town. But the other people you don't know, they scared to come there. We think that, you know. But they, the Vietnamese. The Vietnamese. Some Vietnamese very strong. You have to see the Vietnamese or other Asian they come to Oakland to open nail salon. She have to have the guts to go there and somebody go to of Alaska or Atlanta. Never be there before. we they scare us sometimes you don't know.

Timeframe 1:00:22 >> end

(Interviewer) This is for the next generation. You said you they will maybe come together. What do you think the next generation needs to do?

What they what to do? Get more power in two area go to army and go to the government. Anti anti-people not a big issue because the the population make different they are anti-us because they see we become bigger more power they scared about that. Not the big issue. This is a this is a very good country. I spend 20 North Vietnam 20 years in South Vietnam. forty years. I spend more than 40 years in United States. These are the best, so many problem, but it will okay. We have a problem of gun with anti people but we’ll be okay because the government system is good. Why it good? The limitation of the four year. Yet if we do not like it somebody has the four year over and also we somebody don't like us that is a time we going to grow up. if you are nothing you cannot grow up. You do not do The good thing they let you okay. Anti- people in this, but we are ok. The Asian okay.