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Paul Sakamoto - Part 4 of 4

Interviewer: Connie Young Yu, Mike Honda, Vickie Taketa
Interviewee: Paul Sakamoto (1934 - 2023)

Transcript of Paul Sakamoto

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Systems & Power Timeframe 0:00 >> 3:30

The camp was divided into blocks. And our block was the block 28. Each block had a cafeteria, or a mess hall, it's called. And a lavatory, the bathroom and the barracks came parallel to this facility. And so each block had employees of the... of the camp. And my mother was a dishwasher for the camp, as there several women who were dishwashers. And my father didn't know how to cook, but he was assigned Chief Cook because he had some leadership ability and management skills. And so he... he was Chief Cook for awhile. Well, in the mess hall... in the mess hall you could see the division of the groups. There were the teenagers who sit in one corner and talk about what teenagers talk about, and the men would talk about what men talk. And they were assembled in another corner of the mess hall, and the women with babies would sit in another corner. And so you had a division of of the society, and the men who used to be head of the household no longer was responsible for raising money, for the feeding the family and so forth, because the government sponsored all of those needs. And so the father figure was diminished over time. It wasn't, it wasn't something that was obvious. It was something that you felt that, that no longer was the father, the ruler of the family. And because he wasn't responsible anymore for the upbringing, though he had some say in the raising of the family. Most of the families like ours, which was a large family, the older siblings really took charge and were responsible for taking care of the younger ones.

In the Japanese family the, the mother is more subservient. But in reality, in most cases, like our family, the mother, though it seemed to be a secondary role, was actually more influential in making decisions with the family. And she was the one that discussed these matters with my father. And they come to some agreement on what we should do.

(Interviewer) Do you think it changed her role in the family after you got out of camp?

Oh, yes. I think that she had a lot more to say about how the family was going to function.

Systems & Power Timeframe 3:30 >> 8:44

The name of the camp was Rohwer. Rohwer, Arkansas. And it was the furthest east of all the camps. And it... it particularly they housed, housed the people from Stockton and Lodi, whereas the people from San Jose went to Hartman, Wyoming. And so... my father, my father thought that we were not going to be put in camp. We were going to be moving in the direction of the east so that we wouldn't be put in camps. But unfortunately, he moved us in the wrong direction. And so we were put in a camp with complete strangers to our, our peers. Rohwer, Arkansas was the largest town in the state overnight because of the Japanese American population and it was next-- It was part of a little town called McGehee, Arkansas, which I am not sure is on the map even. But that was the closest town to the camp.

(Interviewer) Was it desolate? Do you remember it being desolate?

It was near the swamplands.

(Interviewer) Can you tell us something about your time as a young student taking class in camp?

The camp classes were similar to the outside. We had Caucasian women teachers because the men were in the service, and these white women were employees of the War Relocation Authority. And they came into the camp, they were outside the camp. They came in daily to teach us. And... generally I would say that they were fairly well qualified because they had a captive audience, so to speak. The discipline problems were not a problem. The achievement was high because of the competitiveness among the Japanese American kids. And the educational level was fairly high. In fact, when they were, we were released, the camp students probably did better than the Indigenous population. As the war wore down, they loosened up many things. For example, the, the guards in the machine gun towers were more relaxed, and they some of them even would come down off of the towers and play catch with the kids and just be more informal. And... the schools, some of the white women teachers would take a group of Japanese kids out of camp, on field trips into the town and so generally things got more loose and better as time went on. In Arkansas, there weren't very many Japanese, or Asians in the whole state. So when we were on field trips, it was like we were... we were freaks, or people thought that these were little different people. And you got stared at, but that was not anything too bad.

(Interviewer) What about the Japanese culture in the camp? Was Japanese language spoken? Did you speak Japanese?

Oh, we went to English school till 3:00 and after 3:00 to 5:00 we went to Japanese school, and that was required until... that was required before we were evacuated and we went to camp, and then they de-emphasized the teaching of Japanese, because the feeling was the more Japanese you could speak, the more difficult it would be to make you more an American.

Systems & Power Timeframe 8:44 >> 12:02

We had three brothers in the service. My brother Tom was the oldest, and he was a career officer. He was in the Army for over 20 years, and my other two brothers were in the 442. But they were in the service late in during the war, so they didn't see combat duty. But my oldest brother did. And he was an interpreter during the war because he could speak Japanese. He graduated from college in Japan, and so he was considered a very valuable soldier because he could read and understand what the enemy was planning.

(Interviewer) Do you have any recollections about when he left and your parents reaction to him leaving?

Well, they were quite proud of him because he got promoted very rapidly because he could... he was college educated in Japan. And in fact, he was considered such a valuable soldier because he could read Japanese, that he had a bodyguard all the time because they they didn't want him to be mistaken for the enemy. He was too valuable of a soldier.

(Interviewer) Where was he stationed?

All over. But the only, the only people who could speak Japanese were put in... in European theater. But he was put in the Pacific Theater because of his background.

(Interviewer) Did you receive any correspondence from your brothers? Did your parents get any letters while he was overseas?

Mostly, you know, not letters, but visits. ... Furlough visits

(Interviewer) And you remember your brother's coming home and your response to seeing them? Do you remember?

They had a lot of stories to tell. I'm not sure which one, how much of it was true, but my brother Tom had the most information about what was happening in the war.

(Interviewer) How old were you during those years?

Nine, ten and 11.

(Interviewer) Do you remember your participation in class? In any particular classes?

No, just that it was competitive because the classes generally had high achievers, and I don't remember... or I think it would be like what we call accelerated classes here in the States.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 12:02 >> 16:29

(Interviewer) Can you tell us the story again about how at night, one, one evening you were yelled at by the guard towers?

Oh, that was because I was chasing a firefly in Arkansas. They had the insects called fireflies, where the abdomen would go off and on and, and the trick for us as kids was to catch the most brightest of the fireflies. And I was chasing this one that was really bright and not paying attention to the fact that it flew over the barbed wire fence. And I chased it. And there was a spotlight shining from the towers on me and rifles pointed, saying, 'Get your ass back to the camp.' And because I had mistaken the... the game of chasing the fireflies versus the security at the camp. But that was just one incident.

(Interviewer) But how old were you then?

I was nine. We made the nets out of mother's nylon socks, and made a net to catch the fireflies. That was what we all, all did at night.

(Interviewer) So when you were yelled at by the guard, were you frightened?

Oh, yeah, I-- they had the rifle pointed at you and then, you know, you didn't know if he was gonna shoot you or what was really going on. Because with the guards, the Japanese were really foreigners they, had not seen Japanese before.

(Interviewer) Paul, can you tell us about some of the artwork that the the Isseis took part in? You told us about how they would collect wood. Could you tell us that story?

Yeah, that was related to ikebana, which is flower arrangement. And the camp was built in the swamps. So there was what they call water cypress. These are nodules that were the infant branches, trunks, and the men would go out and sneak out at night and go into the forest and cut these nodules with the saw and bring them back into the camp. And then we boiled them and peeled the bark off. And underneath it would be a figure like a piece of sculpture, and they would arrange it with the flowers for ikebana. And that was a hobby for the men. And you varnished them and some of them were painted different colors and so forth, but mainly kept-- kept natural and the most artistic figures were the ones that were prized. But they-- this was illegal, of course, because they had to sneak out of the camp to get into the cypress forests, which were swamp with just water covering it. And these nodules surface above the water.

(Interviewer) Well, when you said they would sneak out of the camp, that means there were no gates or how did they get out of the camp?

They sneak under the fence. Barbed wire fence.

(Interviewer) So were you sneaking under the barbed wire fence?

No. These were adults because they had to have saws and equipment to cut these nodules.

Timeframe 16:29 >> 20:07

(Interviewer) Paul, did you engage in any any art work or any group sports in camp or any activities outside of the classroom?

Not organized, no. It was more what you can do with your friends, but it wasn't like having a team or a coach. Or... players and of a particular barrack; it was more just the friends that you made.

(Interviewer) Did did anyone in your family bring back anything from camp and that you still might have today?

Well, there was nothing to take back because it was the camp. And so you didn't have any valuables when you were put in camp you could only take what you could carry. And so there wasn't any great pieces of art that you took with you. It was survival. Well, my parents were Buddhists. They participated in some of the Buddhist activities in camp and out of camp, primarily out of camp in San Jose.

(Interviewer) Was there a temple built in, in camp? A temple, or some shrine?

No, it was a barracks. Yeah. They were converted into a church, a temple. But the real temple was built in Japantown, San Jose, and my father helped build that. He was one of the workers.

(Interviewer) Do you remember your family getting ready to leave the camps? Do you have recollection of that? Getting ready. Packing up to leave camp?

No, not really. I was too young to really appreciate what was happening, and it was a period of really confusion then because we were told that you had to leave by a certain date. And so we didn't have my parents didn't own any house or land to come back to. And when we were put in camp, we were weren't told how long we were going to be in the camp and what was going to happen to us.

So everything was up in the air, and being released was the same thing. You had to leave camp, but you had to find your own place. And so my father and mother sent my oldest, second oldest brother back to San Jose to find this place to live and see about finding a job. And so they found this place, a shack, on the signed off property where they made a living by growing strawberries on the... on a property owned by Steindoff. It was sharecropping.

Timeframe 20:07 >> 22:44

(Interviewer) Can you tell us about a little bit of time that you spent in Brigham City in Utah right after you left Rohwer after you left the internment–

Well, coming back to San Jose area and all the... we heard the heard that it was not completely safe to come back because of that... there was some terrorism going on of Japanese who were back in San Jose. And... Brigham Young-- Brigham City was our stopping point coming back because it was rumored that it wasn't safe to come back to San Jose at that time. My parents settled in Brigham City, Utah, for a year until we found a place in Santa Clara County. Brigham City was, oh, I think, the second largest city in Utah, but everybody was Mormon. And once again, our families didn't fit because the Mormon church was very powerful, very strong. They ran everything. The school system there, political structure is run by the Mormon Church.

(Interviewer) Do you remember what, what your family participated in? Did they do agricultural work in Brigham City? When your family stopped in Brigham City to live for one year?

Oh, that was truck farming. They didn't do the sharecropping until they came back to San Jose.

(Interviewer) I see. So what did they grow in Utah, you remember?

It was truck farming, so he did everything. Sugar beets was primary. Sugar beets was where they make sugar out of beets and you have to dig them up and cut the leaves off and they make pulp out of the main part of the beet. And that was one of the major agricultural products.

Systems & Power Timeframe 22:44 >> 28:10

And the one that I corresponded was a Japanese American who, towards the end of the war, they had this college graduate Japanese teachers teach classes. And this guy was a graduate, I forgot what school, but he taught classes in camp before he was released and then he got a job outside. And so he was my mentor in camp and felt that I had some promise and spent time with me. And we corresponded for over a year after he was released.

(Interviewer) Do you remember even as a young ten year old seeing the contradiction of where you were and why you were placed there?

No, I wasn't that smart. I... I didn't feel the impact of what we were studying and learning versus what was happening to us. And I was too young to sit down and analyze a contradiction between society and and camp and what happened to our rights. I think that if I were a teenager, I would have been more, more knowledgeable and would have done something that would... would answer the questions that I had about what was going on.

(Interviewer) And what were those questions or.

The inconsistency between what we were studying and what was really happening, particularly with the evacuation and the... supposedly the rights that we had and that kind of thing. It wasn't.. up the top of my list of the inconsistencies.

(Interviewer) When at what point did you start, as a young person, to reflect back, and and begin to understand what was what had happened?

Oh, it's it's not something that you get enlightened with all of a sudden, it's something that you live with for a long time. And it's a gradual thing. And you don't realize some of the inconsistencies until you get older and wiser.

(Interviewer) Did you feel your parents having distress about this and did you feel that they were unhappy?

No, I felt that they were fulfilling a demand by the government and that they didn't... to me anyway, at my age, they weren't militant about the what was happening to the family. They just went along with what the government said was something that we needed to do to keep the peace.

(Interviewer) Were there memorials or services for the the members of the 442 from the camp that were killed, from the families in the camp?

I don't recall since my brothers were in for 442, but none of them were in combat duty. But I don't recall.

(Interviewer) Do you recall any sense of fear in the community or within the family or within your parents?

Well, the anxiety was very high when we were first told that we had to move because, you know, we were told you had to leave the West Coast, but then didn't know how long you will have to leave, whether you were going to be able to come back, whether it was going to happen to your property that you might have had. All those questions were up in the air and very little information at that time since they have to move 120,000 people. That's a lot of movement. And to to think about how you transport that, that many people and put them in the camps, to build their small city in some of the states they were the largest, the second largest cities in the state because of the number of people they had to house.

Systems & Power Timeframe 28:10 >> 33:29

(Interviewer) Can you talk about the three and four years that your family ran a hostel in Japantown on Sixth and Jackson?

I don't remember very much about that at all.

(Interviewer) Was it before or after camp?

After. My, my mother would cook for the new arrivals. My father would take them out and try to find jobs for them. And that's what they did after the war.

(Interviewer) And after that-- during that time, did you live, did you live in this boarding house as well?

No, we lived in a house in Alviso.

(Interviewer) So you returned back to Alviso after Brigham City in Utah-- Brigham City back to Alviso

Right.

(Interviewer) Did your parents then share after running a hostel in Japantown?

Yes. My father didn't like running a hostel. He was a farmer at heart. And so he went to do sharecropping with strawberries. And at that time, they, they were digging up the orchards, prune orchards, and converting them to farmland like strawberries. And the agreement was that the landlord provided you with the land to grow the strawberries, and the workers, the family would provide the labor and the knowledge of how to grow strawberries. And the, the landlord, would get approximately 40%. And the workers would get 60%. And that's how they reestablished themselves after the war. You know you were expected to to help in any way you can.

And I remember, I, I, I swore that I would never eat another strawberry after having to pick over and over again because strawberries growing strawberries are very labor intensive. And you had to be on your hands and knees and then run what they call runners and in fact, we we had malathion used to kill the spider mites that infected strawberries. And I think that that's probably where I got my Parkinson's is from the, from the concentrated chemicals they used at that time. [Not in video recording: Malathion was a powder and we used a little teaspoon and the crown of the plant. And you sprinkle that onto the strawberry plant and that was supposedly to kill the spider mite, but it had a very strong odor. I recall that.]

Oh, yes. [This] was year round because there was as a-- dormancy for strawberries that kept growing year round. And as I said, it was labor intensive. So when you weren't picking the fruit, you were cutting the leaves. And in wintertime and you were spraying after you cut the leaves, irrigate... irrigation. And it was just a lot of work.

(Interviewer) So between work, did you work before you went to school and after school?

I worked during the summer, but not after school or before school. My parents didn't insist that I do that.

(Interviewer) When did, when did your parents when did you stop working in the fields? And when did your parents stop growing... strawberries?

Hmm. I can't remember, because I was always around strawberries. Boy, strawberries grow from plant to plant, so it's never ending. It sends out a runner. You plant that runner and the mother plant disintegrates, and it starts over again. Another runner. So it's full time, all year round.

Timeframe 33:29 >> 42:20

(Interviewer) We're going to move a little in time, Paul. And I want to ask you, what was the motivation for majoring in biology, and how did that then take you into your first career?

Oh, the main thing was that I had a biology teacher at Campbell High School named Beth Childs, and she was the main reason that I majored biology. She was a fantastic teacher, and I wanted to be like her. And the other thing was that I wondered whether I wanted to major in art at that time, because I was interested in art. But my mother said that I would probably not make a living at it. And I wasn't. It wasn't, and I wasn't good enough was just the field itself was. But my mother said that I would probably not make a living at it. And I wasn't. It wasn't, and I wasn't good enough was just the field itself was limiting. And and I think that in the long run, she was right that I probably wouldn't have survived if I majored in art. But I liked biology because it was it was a science. It was it was academic. And it was something that I always interested in.

(Interviewer) What part of biology, what part of the science.

Botany, and the, just the regular animal kingdom.

(Interviewer) What was it about these two areas?

So I liked collecting and we always collected insects, and I collected everything. And any time I had two of the same thing, it was a collection. Botany, I think I inherited from my mother because she was a gardener at heart. And so, she turned me on to to growing things from scratch, from cuttings, from seed. As she grew mostly vegetables. So because it was almost like a survival and it was helpful for the family to have things like Japanese vegetable, like daikon, and bitter melon, and things that generally don't-- aren't sold in supermarkets.

(Interviewer) What was it about this teacher that you wanted to emulate? What was it about her?

She made it clear as to what she expected of us as students. She was very knowledgeable, and she took time to take us on field trips. She helped us in our collection of whatever insects or native plants or whatever, and plant taxonomy. She just spent a lot of time with students.

(Interviewer) And how did how did this choice of biology move you into your first career?

Well, I student-taught at Fremont, at the Fremont Union High School District, and that was a good experience because I had a master teacher who was excellent, Henry Johns, and he had a very good reputation as this very strict teacher, but very fair and knowledgeable, and I student-taught under him. And before the term was up, they hired me as a regular teacher at Fremont. So I started my career there.

(Interviewer) How long did you teach before you became an administrator? Before you became administrator?

Five years.

(Interviewer) And in what school?

Sunnyvale High School.

(Interviewer) And from there, you?

I taught for five years. And then the last two years I was a part time counselor and teacher and then full time counselor and then vice principal, and assistant principal for activities, and then an assistant principal for academic, and then principal, and then deputy superintendent. Then superintendent.

(Interviewer) And this was all within ten years?

All within 12 years.

(Interviewer) And did you apply for any of those positions?

No.

(Interviewer) You were promoted.

Right. And those days they came and tapped you on the shoulder and said, you know, 'We'd like to have you be vice principal,' or whatever. And and you didn't apply or people picked you.

(Interviewer) When you say people, were these individuals who were in positions above you who said…

Right, usually the principal of the school.

(Interviewer) What do you, what do you think what qualities do you think you have that...That gave those above you the information they needed in order to promote you, select you? What was what, what are these characteristics that you think you had?

Well, I don't think there's anything magical. It was just that if you work hard and you had a good reception on the part of the students and the parents and, you know, your subject matter and you're willing to put in the time to to help students. I think that that's one of the things that people recognize.

(Interviewer) If you were going to do the same thing, Paul, and promote someone below you, what would you look for? What are the things that you would look for?

Their interest in... in the profession. That they were willing to spend time talking about how to reach students, especially those that were difficult to work with, and just generally talking about their profession and spending time thinking about ways to improve the instruction. (Interviewer) Any other characteristics.

No, I think generally the interest and and how you get along with not only your peers, but students and parents.

(Interviewer) Why did you choose San Jose State?

Well, it was close. It was almost like it was destined that I go to San Jose State since it was the closest and the cheapest, as far as tuition. There was no tuition at that time, it was mainly fees, and... and I wanted to be a teacher, so it seemed to be a good fit. And my parents couldn't afford to send me to UC Berkeley or Stanford or any place else.

(Interviewer) That was at the time it was called college, correct? It was not a university?

Yeah. San Jose State College. Yeah.

Systems & Power Timeframe 42:20 >> 45:35

(Interviewer) Where do you think? Where do you think you began to hold and value a sense of fairness? Where, where does that come from? Do you…

No, it's not something that happens suddenly. I think it's just the way you're raised and how you interact with your peers and how you're treated by others. I don't think anything just happens that you have, have it happen to you. Well, it's as I said, it's it's not something that you suddenly learn. I think it's what you experience over time. And you... as an observer of society, you have a feeling of what ought to be. And I think that's where fairness comes in.

(Interviewer) So if you were teaching students today, and addressing the the anti-Asian hate issues and the violence in our society, you know, how would you approach this? How would you talk to the students about race?

And I think that the hate thing, is something that, really is... is very difficult and it's a surface thing. By that I mean that there's more to it than what's happening now. The question of why Asians were picked to be treated this way and that, and is it that-- because Asians typically have done fairly well in our society, though they face a lot of discrimination. Generally, the population has been fairly successful, and there might be some jealousy or unfairness on the part of some people, that they haven't had the same rights as the Asians. And I think that... that this hate thing is going to be very difficult to get at because it's not clearer as to what the cause or factors are. And I think it's generally the way that people are treated, and that it goes beyond the surface of what hate is like, for the the underachiever, particularly.

Timeframe 45:35 >> 47:20

(Interviewer) After the war, you relocated back to San Jose and then to Campbell that you went to middle school in, Campbell Right.

Not middle school. High school.

(Interviewer) Okay.

They didn't have a middle school at the time.

(Interviewer) In grade school. Were you going to grade school in Campbell also, or was that Alviso?

Grade school, I went to Alviso and then to Cambrian. And Campbell, then Campbell High School.

(Interviewer) You said you were in student government in, was that Cambrian?

No, in Campbell

(Interviewer) Were you ever bullied as being Japanese? After the war, when you came back.

Not that I recall, not directly, I think it's probably more, more subtle than that.

(Interviewer) Your mother? Did you ever see your mother or your dad being mistreated or talked about?

No, because they associated with the other Japanese families. And so my parents weren't exposed to the direct discrimination that second or third generation kids face.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 47:20 >> end

After you retired, what did you want to do, after you retired from education?

I was lost. I didn't have a plan and I retired sooner than I thought [age 56]. And looking in retrospect, I think that I moved to rapidly up through the ladder, and I should have spent more time at the lower level. But things happened and you take advantage of it.

(Interviewer) And so you found things that you really did love to do.

Yes, I started the nursery in Los Gatos called Sakamoto Plants and so that was one of my not goals, but I just fell into it because I spent so much time buying plants and collecting that... That was part of my collection, and in fact, I didn't want to sell them. People would come in and admire them and I wouldn't sell it to them because it was my... and that was not good business sense, and I wasn't making any money and then in fact losing. But I had a very nice collection and so that took a great deal of time that I enjoyed very much. And then the landlord sold the land for apartments and so I had to give up the nursery. Then I made a shot at having a business in Japantown that was called Japonica, which means Japanese, or Japan. And in that way we were partners with a sculptor, and a Vietnamese couple myself, and we dabbled unsuccessfully in a business, but that was fun. And so I tried to do several different things in my retirement.

(Interviewer) And about your artwork you did this for... did you try to sell your artwork?

Yes, but I don't... I was not successful at the business aspect of art. I did what I enjoyed, and I thought they were pretty good. So I continued to show the arts to people and then very few people bought them. But I had a nice collection, that I enjoyed for myself.

(Interviewer) And you used all of this for philanthropy as well. Could you talk about all your donations of your artwork and your plants and or gardening ornaments like to the Hakone Gardens? Could you talk about that?

Well, there were certain places that I felt that needed some help and that was worthwhile investing time and money, and that was Hakone Gardens. Because it was clearly one of the finest gardens outside of Japan, and one of the really authentic gardens. And it was so important that we keep it growing that I felt that we should do what we could to keep it going and I was... I was fearful when the city took it over, the town took it over, that it would be politicized and not, not preserved for what it intended to do initially. But it was clearly a worthwhile donation to the... to the city, to the community. And so that combined with my interest in art and horticulture all together, and what little I did to help I enjoyed very much. I, my latest donation was 19, almost full grown Japanese flowering cherries. And I think that they have matured to such a point that they say it's the best blooming season they had since the opening. And I donated a granite lantern called Toto, and donated a bench, and several other things that I don't remember.

(Interviewer) Many plantings and shrubs which embellish the gardens, and artwork, you've donated your artwork for many a community of auctions and benefits. Can you about that that?

It was a way of getting my art out so people could enjoy them, and learn about them. And so I was willing to donate as much as I could to get my artwork out there. But not being a good businessperson, I... I probably should have had a plan that you start getting, getting the artwork out into the community. But I was willing to donate as much as I could to different organizations. But I was willing to donate as much as I could to different organizations.

(Interviewer) Your paintings and plants that were sought after at these auctions. So can you talk about your plants?

Well the plants came from my interest from my mother and grew to a point where I was collecting some what you would considered very rare plants. And so that was fulfilling for me. I think it may be a sign of insecurity that if someone enjoys what I did or I created, it really makes me feel good that someone else thinks that there's some credit to what I did. And so I'm willing, and I'm willing... I like giving my art to people who enjoy it.

(Interviewer) What did you do in your career that brought you satisfaction?

The fact that I was promoted made me feel good that somebody else had valued my skills and experiences, but I don't... I can't identify any one thing that makes me different. Well, what got me going on? The activism was the... feeling of unfairness on the part of general society, on certain groups of people, and that sense of unfairness got me concerned and involved in the activities of the community.

(Interviewer) How about in the area of art, your art and your, your plant world? What, what one thing brings you satisfaction?

Appreciation of fine things, the aesthetics of what considered to be beautiful.