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Paul Sakamoto - Part 1 of 4

Interviewer: Mike Honda and Vickie Taketa
 Interviewee: Paul Sakamoto (1934 - 2023)

Paul Shigeichi Sakamoto, educator, artist and horticulturist, passed October 27th, 2023 at age of 89 in his hometown of San Jose after a valiant battle with Parkinson's Disease. He was the first Asian American Superintendent of Schools in the nation for the Mountain View-Los Altos Union High School District. Throughout his career as a prominent educator, he was a mentor to many future civic leaders, influential in the development of Asian American Studies at San Jose State and an activist on equal opportunity and civil rights. Sakamoto was also a founder of Asian American Community Involvement and later served as the Associate Dean of Students at SJSU. Among his my roles and his knack for mentorship of leaders like Mike Honda and Paul Fong, Sakamoto was a philanthropist, horticulturalist, and artist.

Transcript of Paul Sakamoto

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Timeframe 0:00 >> 3:51

(Interview) Paul, can you state your full name, your birth date, and the year you were born?

I'm Paul S-- Shigeichi Sakamoto. I was born in actually Alviso. San-- was part of San Jose now, but it was called Alviso at that time, California. Born February 3, 1934, in San Jose.

(Interviewer) Paul, where were your parents born? Your father and your mother

"They're from Kumamoto, Japan. Kyushu. My father came first and he claims that he-- he sent pictures, and he married a picture bride. And that he... at a later moment, he accused my mother of sending a different picture, but they had 11 kids, so they got along pretty well, I would think. I'm the 11th of our family. Well, three passed away before I was born, so I... the rest of them. Tom was the oldest one, and he was a lieutenant colonel in the American Army and acted as an interpreter during the war, World War II, because he was educated in Japan. And my brother George was in the trucking business and Frank was a cabinetmaker or carpenter. And Donald was the one just above me, and he was primarily as a student. And my sister. There are two sisters, Clara and Bertha, Bertha is the only one living of the Sakamoto family. She and I are the last of the Sakamotos. And she lives in Las Vegas.

Shegeichi is number 11. Ichi is one. And then shigei and ichi is ten plus one. And I guess they said hell with a dozen. They just stopped it at 11. Shigeichi is as a s-h-i-g-e-i-c-h-i."

(Interviewer) Where were you born? In a hospital?

No, at home. A midwife.

(Interviewer) Why?

What?

(Interviewer) What were you born at home and with a—

Well, I was some, I guess my parents couldn't afford hospitalization. And at that time, it was fairly common to have births at home with the midwife.

(Interviewer) Do you remember who the... Which, which midwife?

No, I don't. I just heard through the grapevine that that's how I came about.

(Interviewer) Paul, what does-- do you know what Sakamoto means in Japanese?

It means 'side of the hill.'

Systems & Power Timeframe 3:51 >> 6:06

"Well, I don't know too much about that part of the history of our family, but I assume that he came... he came here avoiding the Russo Japanese war and came to San Jose, actually. [He was involved with] truck farming, primarily.

My mother was... well, she had 11 kids, so she didn't... though she was a hard worker. And I can still remember her having a baby strapped to her back, picking crops and... and being the first one then to fix dinner for the family and running my father's bathwater to the temperature that he liked. And the last one to go to bed at night. And I remember, oh, how difficult that must have been. Not being able to speak English and being in a foreign country and raising that many kids at one time. It-- it's hard to believe the responsibility that she must have felt. I, I remember that. My sisters helped a great deal because of the number that my mother had to take care of. And in a big family, the older siblings assumed the role-- part of the role of the raising of the kids. And I think that was part of our family structure."

Timeframe 6:06 >> 9:11

"Ofuro is the bathtub, and it was a bathtub that you sank in to your neck. It was this, you didn't change the water. And each time... you had wood kindling, dried branches underneath it, and a galvanized bottom and a wooden platform that sank as you got into the tub and you burn your own wood and got to got the water to the temperature you wanted and you took a bath with your brothers. And so it was like a family kind of thing, but it was more relaxing than anything, not more cleansing than just relaxing after a full day's work out in the farms.

Well, as a young person at that age, it was like a day was very long. You got to do so much. You got to play with other kids and you got to work. You got the family to interact with. And so the day seemed like you had a lot of time on your hands to do things compared to the present. And the day was structured pretty much by the demands of the school. When school was in session and you had a regular American school and we went to Japanese school after English school, and we had to learn Japanese because my parents couldn't speak English and we couldn't speak Japanese fluently, so it was difficult to communicate. So we had to depend on our older brothers and sisters to help us interpret for them. Eventually you learn. They learned some English and we learned some Japanese. The school was in the... in the Hall, Japanese Hall, which was a kind of recreation center for Japanese festivals. And school was held there, or the Buddhist church [in San Jose Japantown] had a classroom for teaching foreign languages."

Timeframe 9:11 >> 12:16

[We lived] in Alviso. There was a kind of a clan of Japanese Americans who lived in Alviso because Alviso was not a pleasant place to live because that's where the sewer went out into the Bay. And it had an odor that was typical of that area. I don't... I don't remember [the other families]. There were several families that lived there but I don't remember their name.

(Interviewer) How about a neighbor?

Or the neighbor was the landlord who owned the land and we were sharecroppers and strawberries. They owned the land and we did we provided the labor and the expertise of growing the crop. So they got 60%, and we got 40% of the profit. And that's how most of the of many of the families established themselves in this area.

(Interviewer) Did your family attend church? And which church?

Buddhist temple. They're fairly active in the church.

(Interviewer) Alviso? San Jose?

San Jose.

(Interviewer) And do you remember friends from the church?

Oh, mostly my age, just kids. And the YBA [Young Buddhist Association] which was for teenagers and young, young kids.

(Interviewer) Did you did you play sports with the with the church?

The playground type of thing. Not organized. Yeah there was a kid my age. We spent a lot of time together and... I remember him. The fact that I still remember that I looked him up after the war and he didn't remember me which broke my heart. But, you know, we didn't have a television, of course, at that time, and we only-- we didn't have a means of communication except for radio. And... and some people had telephones.

Systems & Power Timeframe 12:16 >> 17:10

In Alviso, we rented a house. It was a very large house that housed the whole, not only our whole family, but some other newcomers. And I remember has a row of palm trees led up to our house. And those palm trees are still, still living. They're still living. The house is gone, but. That was where we spent our time. That was when my... when the war broke out. And my father, all the word was that we were going to be put in camp, that they're going to try to get the Japanese Americans off in the West Coast into, in the inner land. And my father had the bright idea that we were not going to be put in these camps, that we're going to move to where it was safe. So he got rid of everything that we can carry and bought folding furniture and things that you use for camping. So we would move east and settle and move east until it was safe that we wouldn't be put in the camp. Oh, typical of many decisions, he made the mistake of moving in the direction they were taking of people and putting them in camps. And so we were put into a camp that we didn't know anyone else because they were mostly from Lodi and Stockton. And we were put into a camp in Rohwer, Arkansas, and people in Arkansas, I don't think they ever saw a Japanese American because they just weren't didn't exist in their mind. And that was like a new start, making new friends.

Well, we spoke Japanese because my parents couldn't speak English, but we understood it. We couldn't speak fluently. We spoke it not very well. And then the war broke out and and it was more considered to be more American if you said you couldn't speak Japanese. And so even though you could speak it, we didn't speak it. And eventually we lost it. Oh, my brother, my oldest brother is Tom, and he was drafted into the U.S. Army. And in those days, no matter how poor you were, you were sent-- the oldest son was sent to Japan to get an education. So he graduated from high school here in Santa Clara and went to Japan for... for his bachelor's degree. And after he graduated from university in Japan, he came back here and was drafted into the US Army and became an interpreter. Well... you didn't feel segregated because you didn't... you wasn't even-- even to that point, you had your own social group, which was Japanese American families and the Caucasian families were separate in that they, they have the... the, what should I say, they dominated in the society at that time, because they had the land and the money.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 17:10 >> 24:17

Well, it's mostly the festivals at the Buddhist church or Buddhist temple, and, and just the typical ones that they celebrated and we participated in. But San Jose Buddhist Temple was the center of the social and religious aspect of our lives at that time. Oh, yes. They were the highlight of our lives after working in the farm. I remember the pool hall. Where, well, now, I forgot where it is now…Some kind of cosmetic. That's cosmetic company I think has-- Yes, that's where the pool hall was.

(Interviewer) Do you remember the name of pool hall?

Remember what?

(Interviewer) Do you remember the name of the pool hall?

No. Your family.

(Interviewer) Taketa, Clark.

Oh, Clark was the unofficial mayor of Japantown. Everybody knew Clark and my brother worked for Clark. They had the barbershop together for a number of years before they split. And he set his own barbershop on the sixth street in Japantown.

(Interviewer) Do you remember any other [shops]?

Koguras, I remember. And well, the Japanese school was there. Dobashis, I remember. That was where we went to buy Japanese food. For some reason we didn't remember Wesley Methodist, it was like two different societies divided by Jackson Street, and so we never mixed with the Christians.

(Interviewer) Do you remember the pharmacy or the doctor?

Clark's, Clark's Pharmacy. I remember. I remember Ken Ying Low, the restaurant where we ate-- festivals most of the time were held at Ken Ying Low restaurant. For some reason I don't remember the dentists. Doctor Watanabe was our doctor and he was on Fifth Street, I think. And I think that maybe Bob Okamoto, the optometrist, was there on Fifth-- Jackson.

(Interviewer) Where did you get your hair cut?

No, my brother did that for a long time, maybe 30 or 40 years. People said that I looked like I put a rice bowl on my head and trimmed it that way. He wasn't too happy about that, even though he didn't charge me. My friends said I don't go to your brother because he makes me look Japanese.

(Interviewer) How about Wings?

Oh, yeah. Wings was there. I remember Wings because you went into the restaurant and they seated you and a little booth, the curtain. And everybody had their own little island. Very secure and private.

(Interviewer) How often did your family go as a family to Japantown when you were young?

Not often. We didn't have that kind of money. We went for a celebration of maybe birthdays and special days, but not regularly.

(Interviewer) How did you get to the temple and at what age were you when you started to attend?

Oh, we had a car, an old Chevrolet and and one of my brothers was fairly versed in mechanical things, so he kept it up, but it was not a very fancy car. And I, I don't remember what year it was, in fact, but it was not new and it needed a lot of work all the time. No, I remember just enjoying the time we had to go to Japantown because there are so many. There's the center of activities for us. That was the place that everybody gathered and that caught up with your friends who were probably in the same boat you were in and you got the food, the Japanese food, and it got China meshi, they call it. Chinese food. And that was our social center.

(Interviewer) Do you remember going to downtown San Jose at all?

No. Only for things that required legal attention are some formal things that had to be done, but I don't remember anything of it. Maybe the Bank of America, which is on the corner of Santa Clara and First Street... San Jose State, but San Jose State was surrounded by grass and trees, so it was like apart. But college was distant, away from where I was at that time.

Systems & Power Timeframe 24:17 >> 26:17

So the people that made out well financially were the ones with the neighbors took care of the land while they were gone [at camp]. And I remember when my father making that decision to move into camp. And in camp, he lost all control of the family. Yeah He didn't have to make any decisions anymore because the government made every decision there was to make. And so he became actually more... what should I say, unimportant in the family structure. Yeah. And so they were playing cards most of the time and chatted about the war, which they didn't know anything about the war except that people would come or steal these shortwave radios and be able to get the latest news, so-called news, and they'd come around to each block and say, 'The Japanese are winning the war,' or whatever rumor there was. In fact, there was one camp where they had the rumor that the Japanese were going to come in and save them from camp, and they prepared sushi and sashimi and all these really goodies and waited for the Japanese to come help them out of this camp, and only to find out that they, that these rumors spread out and blossomed out into the fact that they were winning the war, which they were losing.

Narrative & Identity Timeframe 26:17 >> 27:27

I can't remember any close friends who were Caucasian until I was in junior high school. That was... junior high school would be... part of Alviso because I was named after Paul Diaz. Paul Diaz was the principal of the school. He was Portuguese American, and there was an enclave of Portuguese Americans that lived in Alviso, my parents really liked Mr. Diaz and named me after him and his name was Paul Diaz. I don't remember having any Caucasian friends until after camp.

Timeframe 27:27 >> 28:38

My older brothers went to Santa Clara High School.

(Interviewer) And where were your parents living at that time?

They were living on the... oh, I forgot the name of the landlord, but where? The property was in Alviso.

(Interviewer) So did they ever live in Japantown?

No.

(Interviewer) How did how did they get to Santa Clara High School from Alviso?

There was a bus.

(Interviewer) Were you a part of a program, a busing program, or did the buses...? No, just the bus had a regular routine around and they took... In those days, most of the kids then ride the buses to school.

Systems & Power Timeframe 28:38 >> 30:48

(Interviewer) Paul, how did you how did your family hear about the bombing of Pearl Harbor?

I don't remember, but I suspect to the radio.

(Interviewer) And did they inform you and your brothers and sisters or?

you just pick it up as a conversation from the adults. But it wasn't something you sat down and thought about. They just you... listened to what's going on among the adults. As I was, what, nine, eight, nine and ten years old at that time?

(Interviewer) Do you have any any memories of about their reaction or did you notice that something had changed in the house?

Well, it was a real anxious period because not only did you know that you had to leave and it was just this, the lack of information about what was going to happen and what the future held because... you didn't know whether they were going to be temporary move, and let you back into your own home afterwards, or what, what was going to happen to your family. The future was so up in the air. It was a very anxious period. And it's surprising that there wasn't more turmoil at that time against the evacuation. The feeling was, well, the government knows what's best for you, so you pack up and follow their direction.

Timeframe 30:48 >> 33:02

Teachers were... were and I would say good. They were not have the prejudices that you thought they might have because they were supported by the what they call the WRA, which is the War Relocation Authority. And the WRA was like your sub parents. They made all the decisions and they hired Caucasian teachers to come into the camp. So all the teachers in elementary school were Caucasian, and eventually, they-- they saw that the students were doing pretty well in camp. And so there were a lot of adults, Japanese American adults, who were in camp, who applied for and was appointed teachers. And my brother was very good at woodworking, my brother Frank, and he was a teacher, a woodshop teacher, during camp. So the school was not a problem.

(Interviewer) Even back when you were young and in Alviso, do you have memories of teachers or anybody that might have influenced you?

Well, of course, the principal was a big influence and that's why I was named after him. But I don't remember any particular teachers there. There were teachers from the camp that I corresponded with after they left camp... that I remember.

(Interviewer) So you stayed in touch with these teachers, after camp? Do you remember how long?

Not very long. Probably a year afterwards.

(Interviewer) And they were Caucasian.

Systems & Power Timeframe 33:02 >> 38:12

Yeah, and they had the ability to take... to to take us on trips outside of the camp, outside of the barbed wire fence, into town. Freedom is what you saw. Because the camp was... camps were built on land that was just almost worthless in the desert and swamps. And they were built overnight and they were surrounded by barbed wire fence and machine gun towers to keep us in camp. And which is rather ironic, since if you escaped from camp, they could certainly tell that you belong to the camp and not allowed in the public, because there were no Japanese in Arkansas that we knew of. And the camp had barracks that were built overnight, tar paper barracks, and they would divided-- the camp was divided into blocks.

Each block had a mess hall, lavatory, and the barracks housed the residents. And you were assigned rooms according to the number of children in the family. And so you had this big room with hanging towels and blankets, so that people had some sense of privacy. But the tar paper barracks were built overnight, so they were there in order to conserve on wood, they put tar paper where the pieces of wood would meet, and I remember sticking my finger through the tar paper, through the wall of the blocks of the barracks, because it was so poorly built and built overnight. You have to remember that there were total 120,000 people we housed in the very short period of time. So they couldn't... build any, anything substantial living quarters.

Well, as you crossed the line where the barbed wire fence was, it... struck you, struck home, that this was a prison... that barbed wire fence had razor blade type of wire. And the you knew that this was serious, it wasn't a temporary kind of thing, but you didn't know what the future was. Because they put you in the camp, you could only take what you can carry. So you had to get rid of all of the stuff you had before, unless somebody had took care of it for you, which generally they didn't want to do. And... and so, you lost all sense of ownership, privacy, and freedom.

Oh, I remember. I remember there was, during the war there was in the evening every evening there was a car parked in our driveway, which was a long driveway, and they was an FBI. And they sat there and watched to see if we were going to signal the Japanese, you know, with our lights and the car. And I remember them coming through the house and I remember them looking through albums and books and they couldn't figure out what they were because they were in Japanese. And so they took them. And before that, my parents took some of the family things and buried them in the ground so that they wouldn't be discovered and thought to be espionage-type information. But... it was just disconcerting to have grown men coming through and go through what you have and take things that they didn't understand. But I don't know what happened to all that stuff.

Systems & Power Timeframe 38:12 >> 41:42

Most of our neighbors were Lodi and Stockton.

(Interviewer) So you guys went to Rohwer with them?

Yeah. So we were put in an assembly center first.

(Interviewer) And where was that?

The county fairgrounds. All the fairgrounds in California were turned into assembly centers.

(Interviewer) Is that the Sacramento Fairgrounds?

Yeah, and then it was, It was temporary because they assigned it to horse stalls. Yeah, because that's where the fairs, the county fairs were held. And it was-- you knew it was going to be temporary because they had to build these barracks, these camps, these houses, for permanent housing. You know. Yeah.

(Interviewer) So you were at Sacramento County, so then you went to Rohwer. (Interviewer) To Rohwer or they put us on trains and sent us to Rohwer. (Interviewer) Do you remember the train ride, Paul?

Oh, yeah. And you just remember looking out the window, wondering where we'll go if we're going north or south or east or west. You could see out the window, but you didn't know where you were, or where you were headed. And and our parents didn't know, so nobody knew even except for the-- even the guards in the train didn't know. But you knew...

(Interviewer) Do you remember how long the train took to get to...

I don't know. But it took a long time because Arkansas is very far away. I remember the, moving us as group and how the soldiers looked like they were... it was a crowd control thing and how they moved us and moved us into camp from the train depot. And it seemed like a war movie. And you were an actor in that process.

(Interviewer) Yeah, they had rifles, bayonets on it?

Yeah. No. Food was always a problem because Japanese are used to eating Japanese food, not meat loaf or beef jerky or gravy or, or whatever that's turned out to be here. It wasn't a very long period of time because they had, they built, they were building these barracks for some time. And it's amazing that they were able to house that many people in a relatively short period of time, and to move a whole tribe of people based on what they look like. Because most people can't tell the difference between the Chinese and Japanese. If you've been to any county fair and gone through and see the animals, you have a sense of what it must've been like, even though you might have scraped up all the droppings and whatever. It still smelled the same. Yeah.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 41:53 >> 45:51

No, I think that it's... it's easier to look back and say, 'I should have done' or 'I could have done.' Because when you're eight, nine, ten years old, you don't, you're-- you're not used to questioning. And it's more... a feeling of acceptance is what you want, acceptance by your teachers, and by your peers, and by yourself. And that's it, I guess.

Well, there are some light moments in camp, and I told Vickie about my fireflies, and I still remember. And in Arkansas, they have fireflies that are, look like termites. And at night the abdomens light up and the shine and the things were kids was to make a tent net and to catch the one that has the lightest, the brightest abdomen. And I remember that this was competitive. I would make the best net the brightest type of firefly. And I remember this one. We were chasing this one firefly that flew over the barbed wire fence. And I went after it and I was sure I was going to get the brightest one. And this spotlight from the machine gun towers came lighted and said, 'Get your ass back over the fence,' and... but I miss the fireflies and there is no place that has it that I can remember. Beautiful insects. I don't remember our discussion at that time, but the hypocrisy of the lesson versus what was happening was something that... that just... you didn't think about it, because if you thought too much about it, you feel that you had to do something. But typically it was being quiet and just following rules and not making waves. But you could tell the teachers were somewhat embarrassed about having to teach about freedom, and seeing in front of their eyes, that this was a camp, a concentration camp. At that time if you said this is a concentration camp, the people would have absolute fit that they would compare it to Nazi Germany and say, 'You people were not treated very well, but you were fed and you were clothed and and you were protected. And so why did you have any complaint and how can you compare it to being called a concentration camp?'

Systems & Power Timeframe 45:51 >> 50:27

So my parents sent my brothers to California to find us a place to live. And the rumors that the area was inhospitable to Japanese Americans returning and people were being shot. And so we decided to go to Utah, where there was truck farming and jobs until they heard that it was safe to come back to the San Jose area. So they sent my brother, Frank, and George, to San Jose to find us a place to live and to find a possibility of jobs. We spent over a year or so in Utah-- Brigham City, Utah, and made a living by cutting sugar beets and doing truck farming until we found found a place to live in San Jose and felt that it was safe enough to move back to the area. And in the San Jose area they did the same thing that they did in Utah, as truck farming. And that's where the jobs are available. Well, instead of sugar beets, it was prunes... celery, lettuce and all the kinds of vegetables.

(Interviewer) You talked about your parents doing strawberries as well.

Yeah. And that after they got enough money together to do some more permanent kind of farming instead of truck farming, they went into the strawberry business and they leased the land from the landlord and were paid a percentage that was called sharecropping, where the landlord received 60%. And the farmers, the Japanese farmers received 40%. And the 40% was to pay for the plants and the expenses of growing strawberries. Strawberries was selected because it was labor intensive, and it took some technical skills to grow strawberries. And that's how they made a living for a number of years in San Jose. They, first of all, had a hostel in Japantown... what's called Japantown now. And from there they saved enough money to go into sharecropping. And that was in the... the fringes of San Jose. Like Campbell. That was before the war.

(Interviewer) And when you say, [your parents ran a] hostel, who were they?

They were the new arrivals from Japan, and they were all males. And they came here to make enough money to send back money to their families in Japan.

(Interviewer) Do you remember where it was located in Japantown?

It was on Sixth and Jackson.

(Interviewer) Do you know how long your parents had the hostel?

Probably three or four years.

Systems & Power Timeframe 50:27 >> 53:47

School was like any other school they had; the school building was tar paper barracks like the barracks we lived in. And this, the teachers were assigned by the WRA, which is the War Relocation Authority. That's like the school board out, out in public schools, the WRA selected teachers, mostly female white teachers to teach in the camp. And they didn't live in the camp. They came into, to camp to teach, and eventually as the war wore down, the teaching assignments were turned over to the Japanese Americans who are college graduates. Well, it's hard to even remember because I was so young, but it was typical day with coursework, classwork, probably as I recall, teacher pupil ratios about, about 30, and with recesses and those types of activities.

(Interviewer) Do you remember participating with your parents in any activities in camp or your parents participating in activities in the camp?

Well, there were... most of the activities surrounded the religious groups. The Methodists and the Buddhists and my parents were Buddhists. So the Buddhist Temple Church had its own activities, and that was the, the center of the social life for my parents.

(Interviewer) Any art or music or...?

All of that related to the culture of the time.

(Interviewer) Did you yourself participate in any art classes or any music classes in, in school?

No, not anything special, except for what kids do at my age, as I was nine, 10, and 11. You, you play sports.

(Interviewer) What sports did you participate in?

Oh, they had basketball on the recess time... dodgeball and things that kids at elementary level play.

Joy & Cultural Resistence Timeframe 53:47 >> 55:25

Rohwer, Arkansas, which is the camp we were in, was in the swamps of Arkansas, and they had... cypress trees that had unusual shape nodules and that, that became kind of a prize for the men to sneak out of camp if they could, and cut these nodules from the cypress trees and make sculptures out of them. And in fact, that was probably the only reason that people left camp was to collect these nodules that were unusual because you had to not only cut them off, but you had to boil them and peel the skin off the nodules. And they became like fixtures that you would put with the ikebana. And, so, so it was rather ironic that the the camp was to keep these people in camp. And yet we were eager to get out to get these nodules, which was a hobby, an art form, and not anything that was considered to be negative in terms of security.

Systems & Power Timeframe 55:25 >> 58:47

(Interviewer) Do you remember your mom's role in any activities she participated in?

Well, she was busy with kids because we had-- I was the last of 11 children. And so she was hired as a dishwasher as a lot of the women were. And the mess hall... the camp was divided into blocks and each block had a cafeteria, or a mess hall we called it, and and a lavatory, and each block had their own labor force, and my mother was a dishwasher. My dad was for a while he was a cook, chief cook, even though he didn't even know how to boil water. But he supposedly had some leadership skills, so they made him Chief Cook. I remember once when at Thanksgiving, the whole block came down with diarrhea at the same time, and they almost lynched him because they blamed him for the disease.

But they both worked for the WRA to the, to the mess hall, and for the men that was difficult because they no longer were in a decision-making role for the family. So in the mess hall, the men would sit in one corner and the women would be sitting in another corner with their children, and the teenagers would be in another corner and just fooling around and waiting for them to be served. So it kind of split the family up into little groups and the men didn't have the authority they had on the outside because there was no decision to be made by them.

(Interviewer) Did you, it-- did you see a change in that structure after the camp where the father was the head of the family, or did your father go back into that position?

Even though it was slight, I think the women had more authority and more say after camp than they did before. Decision making for the family and what kind of car they might buy or what they might invest in the... It wasn't like women's liberation at that time. It was still pretty, pretty backwards.

Timeframe 58:47 >> 1:01:42

My brother Frank was good at woodworking, so he was kind of like a teacher's aide for a woodshop. But I think he was the only paid person in our family. Ken Sakota was a friend I met at camp. In fact, I was his babysitter. He came from Lodi and his family had a farm, a grape farm, vineyard at Lodi. And we came and I took care of him when he was a child. And I became like his godfather. And we didn't see each other for... after we released from camp, they went back to Lodi and I remember when I was the principal of Sunnyvale High School, he came to see me, and we got back together again. He was a brat. [Laughter]. Well, he was like any other kid, and he was a nice-looking young man... as a boy, actually. And I don't remember too much of this, just the fact that I was his babysitter.

(Interviewer) Any other friends you made in camp that you, you see today?

There was one guy named Jack. I forgotten his last name now. We were very close. And after many years, I knew that his family run a hardware store in Los Angeles, Japantown. And this is many, many years afterwards, I decided to go down to Los Angeles to look him up, and that was probably how 20 or 30 years since I saw him and I went into his hardware store and said, 'You don't remember me, do you?' Because we spent almost every day together. And he didn't remember me. Kind of broke my heart.

Systems & Power Timeframe 1:01:42 >> 1:05:09

(Interviewer) Do you remember any feelings you had about leaving camp and returning to San Jose?

No, I was too young. And those kinds of decisions are made by the adults. And so there is a level that people my age would consider any decision-making for the family. No, just that the places we lived in when we first got out of camp was buildings or shacks that no one would even consider living in with dirt floors, no water, no electricity, but just the utilitarian kinds of buildings. Until we put enough money together to live someplace else, but these shacks were the primary source of housing for many of us because all the farms had these shacks that they stored things in and then we had to clean out and fix up so that they would be liveable. Well, it's hard to leave any place that you lived for or three years, because even the camp can accumulate some things. But going into camp, you were restricted by what you couldn't carry, nothing more than that. And so it was easy to establish yourself with just a few things that you can carried into camp leaving in you collected things over the three years, but I can't think of anything major, like an automobile or furniture, that you would take with you that that you considered essential.

Life in camp. I guess the most difficult thing was that it was like being in prison. You didn't have the freedom to... even if you didn't do certain things, at least you knew that you could do them. And in the camp it was with the machine gun towers every so many yards, barbed wire fence. It didn't take much imagination to have this... ...The feeling of confinement, and for doing what? At that age, you pretty much follow what your family says that you're to do. So it's not like you resented the treatment that you received, but you sense that it was wrong.

Timeframe 1:05:09 >> 1:08:21

(Interviewer) When you when you when your family came back to San Jose, did your dad prepare to become a citizen with the passage of the Walter McCarran Immigration Act?

No, they were too busy trying to make a living.

(Interviewer) Okay, so neither one of your parents applied? No. (Interviewer) Okay, so they stayed, oh gosh what would the status then be? An immigrant, I guess. (Other Interviewer) Alien status. (Interviewer) Yeah. Alien status. They kept their alien status.

[not in recording] (Interviewer) Paul, did you ever hear your mom, or your dad make any comments about what you've done or what your brothers have done? You know, comments like, you know, it was great that you guys did this or, you know.

No. My parents mostly, by the time that I was, I was a teenager, pretty much left a lot up to my older brothers and sisters to help clarify my positives and negatives because they were busy with their labor. And I can't remember any, any time that they would compliment me on whatever I did, if I did anything well. It was not in their role to do that, and they pretty much left that to my sisters.

(Interviewer) Yeah. So when you went back, and when your folks did the sharecropping, you said that they had to save money, so they had to buy into the sharecropping business.

Or they bought all the plants and and the equipment.

(Interviewer) Was it with the landowner or was it with their company like DeLong or Kaiser? Or do you remember if it was...?

The landlord. Things were kind of a part of the prune industry. And so the acreage was between the orchards for growing prunes and the strawberry land. Yeah.

(Interviewer) Do you remember any of the landlords' names?

No. Richards comes to mind. Steindorf, in fact the school was named after Steindorf. Steindorf owned the property that my parents grew strawberries on.

(Interviewer) Did your parents continue to work until their old age, their retirement?

There was no such thing as retirement for them.

Timeframe 1:08:21 >> 1:14:48

I went to Alviso School, one room schoolhouse before the war. Afterwards, I went to Campbell, Cambrian, an elementary school district, and I remember the principal's name was Bagby. And I went from Cambrian Elementary School to Campbell High School and graduated from Campbell, went to San Jose. Well, there was no such thing as middle school at that time. Junior high school. I was at Cambrian and and high schools, Campbell. I, I can-- I can't think of anything special. I was involved in student government in Campbell. That was my main activity.

(Interviewer) Did it start in your freshman year?

Yeah, because we were together from Cambrian, and we were, the whole class went to Campbell.

(Interviewer) Do you remember how you got involved in student government activities?

I can't remember. And the motivation for it was... was it just seemed like a natural thing to do. Become, become involved and active in student government in those days, I think it's probably still the same. This takes... some initiative, but it's relatively easy to become an active participant.

(Interviewer) It was easy for you or because what did it offer you?

Acceptance.

(Interviewer) Acceptance. And what did you give back to participating?

My time. Well, I think that to be chosen to do certain tasks... gave you some sense of accomplishment and pride. And being accepted by your peers.

(Interviewer) Were there many Japanese Americans like yourself that at Cambrian in and at Campbell?

A few. There weren't very many Japanese Americans in total, anyway. Hmm, I don't remember any special encouragement by anybody at that time. I went from, just my own interests.

(Interviewer) When you were participating with student activities and student government, what positions did you seek and which positions did you hold? In high school or, or... what level, college? (Interviewer) High school?

Mostly class activities.

(Interviewer) Do you have any examples?

Well, I guess class, class presidency.

(Interviewer) And this started in your freshman year.

Yeah, ninth grade.

(Interviewer) So every year did you hold a position?

Every year from freshman year to senior and then on to college.

(Interviewer) What's the difference between class president and student body president?

A big difference. Because as student body president, the whole, the whole level of freshmen through senior who can vote, and the class president is just your classmates and your graduating class.

(Interviewer) So you represent in your class to the larger body. Right.

(Interviewer) Did you ever hold the position of student body president?

No, not at the high school level. College level. I was vice president of student body.

Transformation & Change Timeframe 1:14:48 >> 1:30:58

Well, although I had the grades to get into Cal, University of California had a standard entrance requirement of, a what they call 'A to F', the courses that you have to have in order to get admitted to GPA. Yeah, qualified for that. But financially, my parents couldn't afford to send me away to school, so I was kind of destined. I knew that I was going to be San Jose State, that I have to go to school and I have no regrets.

(Interviewer) So when you went to in the state, was there a lot of folks that you knew from school, previous schools?

Well, not a lot at that time or can't think of, there were there were probably about 4,000 students. And now they're on 60,000. Yeah. So... there are a lot of kids from Campbell High School that went to San Jose State that I know, but not not a lot. In high school I had a very close friend, in fact, is closest friend today, and he, his name is Alex Stepowich. He was a dentist, the retired dentist now. He, he and I were inseparable through high school. I mean, and we even dress together. Same kind of clothes. And I had dinner at his house every Sunday for I don't know how many years and in fact, today I'm his. I'm his son's, his only son's, godfather. I think we're going to have dinner tonight.

Alex and I are went to San Jose State together and he went through rush... rushing, as you may know as a fraternity activity. It's like an open house where potential members would go into the house to see what it was like and so I joined and members would look at you as a possible member and Alex and I would have lunch together at the fraternity house. And so I had lunch there almost every day with Alex and he got drafted in the service and I still went to the house for brunch by myself. And over time it seemed like I was a member, a nonpaying member, of the House and it just seemed like... oh, like it wasn't, it wasn't an issue that I was accepted like a member of the house. And I didn't... the question of race never came up, even though it was clear that in the fraternity sorority system of higher education, it's the main social avenue for participation by students.

And even though most of the students know that there was a color line that we couldn't step over... that some of the fraternities and sororities had clauses in their constitution that this is for whites only. Yeah, but since the Greek system was so embedded in the higher education, people just accepted it as that's the way it is and ain't going to be changed, so let's live with it. It wasn't til much later that people began to question the fact that here is a state institution supporting this kind of policy. Anyway, I became a member of the House, unofficially, by just being there and becoming just like one of the guys in the fraternity. I didn't go through Rush, and Rush was primarily for freshmen anyway, and over the years I made some very close friends, and a group of them decided that they wanted to make me a member officially before they graduated.

So they there were about four or five of them did everything they could to get the national through, except the fact that a minority person was going to be considered a member. Fortunately, Delta Epsilon, which is the fraternity that I belonged to, didn't have a clause. And so it was open, and still it was... it was white only at that time. And... the fraternity system at that time was... the membership was very difficult because both sides had to agree to be accepted into that House. And that's where the concept of blackballing came about. In the old days when memberships' name-- members name came up, they voted on whether they accepted the person or not. They put a white ball in the pot for acceptance and the black one and if there was just one black ball they would not accept you. It had to be 100%.

Anyway, I was a senior and this group of very close friends decided that they're going to do something about this. And they started a campaign, not a campaign, but they started working with the National to get me accepted as a member and they took a vote in the House. And there was one man, a boy actually from El Centro. I never forget him. He's the one that blackballed me, and they worked on him and he changed his mind. And I became a member end of my senior year, April of 1955, I was the first person of color in the 200-year history of San Jose State. And that was a very, very high point for me that that happened, that they took it upon themselves to get that changed. And since then, of course, it's wide open for people of color.

(Interviewer) Isn't it true that San Jose State Greek houses, sororities, fraternities, lost their national charter because they... they changed their practice at the local level and told, told the the national level to go fly a kite about the white only clause... does that does that sort of fit into what you understand how it started to change the, the national charter system?

Even changed at San Jose State because at that time they were actually helping the fraternities and sororities exist. In fact, there questions came out that how could you have a person of color in the first fraternity when fraternities and sororities had to go together? And that question of interracial dating as a reason for not having a... colorblind. In fact, I remember we asking the dean of students at that time how they could support an organization that discriminated. And he said, 'Well, it would be difficult to eliminate the Greeks because we would have trouble housing, with housing if we did that.' So he was more concerned about the dormitories, which didn't exist at that time. And... rather than the principle of the thing. I was somewhat surprised that the general member of the house didn't even know this was going on. Like one of the older members said to me, 'How come you're not a member here? He's the member for a number of years.' And he didn't realize that there was a gentleman's agreement that no person of color would be a member.

(Interviewer) So Delta Epsilon.

Upsilon, Upsilon

(Interviewer) Upsilon. They didn't have a white only clause in their charter?

No, it was a gentleman's agreement.

(Interviewer) But the other Greek houses.

Several had the clause.

(Interviewer) What I understood was a lot of the Greek houses had lost their federal charter because they went in the same direction that Delta Upsilon went. And some, some just hung on to the clause that they felt that it was for whites only, and that's their choice. Then they didn't have to go abide by what the college was saying, but the colleges were in a position that they might lose some money or their charter. So they decided to go along with it.

(Interviewer) So it's ironic. Couple of decades later, who became the dean of activities? Were you not the dean or assistant dean of activities?

I was associate dean of students’ activities.

(Interviewer) So you see a lot of change between when you were--?

Oh, yeah. In fact, I went to a reunion of the house one time, sometime ago, and the president of the fraternity, Delta Upsilon, was Black. And he, even he didn't realize that there was a colorblind, color amendment, yeah, because it wasn't, it wasn't a, it wasn't an issue with most of the students. Yeah. They couldn't give a damn whether they had a fraternity or not.

(Interviewer) Who was the fellow that you went to high school with that was your best friend.

Alex. What was interesting that, well, he was my best friend. He was not involved in this activity because he was in the service. He got drafted. Right. And so this happened without his presence.

(Interviewer) They should be proud of being pointed out as the leaders of this change.

Sam Yates is the one that spearheaded the group, and he's a stockbroker in San Francisco. He's now retired. The each house had a different kind of emphasis like the Sigma Alpha Epsilon was those mostly jocks, Sigma Nu was for closet people, and Delta Upsilon was more government administrative. I know all the House presidents and were members of the House. In fact, one pledge class had 26 members and 24 were student body president of their high schools. Yeah, the fit was always there was the national and the national movement was the one that emphasized the, the prejudices.

(Interviewer) what was your reaction to the reaction, one of your supporters that they wanted to do this to to make you an official member?

Well, I think that it was really moving kind of incident. I remember clearly, even to this day, I remember going to house, 12:00 midnight, which wasn't unusual in the college... people are always up at all different hours. And I went to the house. This was before I became a member, and the House was full of members at that hour, and they asked me to come to the meeting. The... Sam Yates called my home and asked me to come to the meeting, and I went to the meeting and and they all stood up and sang the song, the fraternity song. And at that time, they told me that I was a member of the House. And I... that happened in April of 1955. So I was a senior at that time. And there aren't many seniors that would join the fraternity at my age, because most of 'em were freshmen. That was the high point of my college life.

Timeframe 1:30:58 >> 1:40:27

I wanted to major in art as I enjoyed the high school experience was an art and my parents told me that I probably wouldn't make a living at it since it's probably true. So I selected biology. A lot of Japanese Americans went into biology and the hard sciences. And so I majored in biology through college and in fact I taught biology in high school.

(Interviewer) So what was your first job after college?

That was at Sunnyvale High School. And I taught general science and biology and algebra. After, I don't know how many years teaching, I think five years, I became a counselor. I got a credential for counseling. And then I became assistant principal of student activities, and vice principal, principal, dean of student activities at San Jose State, and Superintendent of Schools for Mountain View/Los Altos. Yeah.

(Interviewer) Do you remember what kind of car you had?

55 Chevy Bel Air. When I was principal, I had a Jaguar XKE.

(Interviewer) What color?

Forest green.

(Interivewer) It was a cool car.

Yeah, and the kids loved it. They could-- I could park anyplace, and they would protect it from being damaged because they felt it was like their car. I think that there was a change in the kind of administrators there were at that time that was like, well, one of my mentors was Bob Martin. I remember him when he was dean of students at San Jose State. And he kind of taught me that you could be an administrator and be a friend of the students without losing your position or being too buddy buddy with people, even to help. And I think that helped me do my administration more than anything.

Pete [Mesa] was an English teacher and a baseball coach when I was a science teacher, so we got along very well immediately. And he was a great teacher and then he became vice principal when I was principal, I selected him over Kenning, who administration wanted to be my vice principal, and I said, 'No, I think Mesa is going to be my vice principal,' and they wouldn't move and I wouldn't move. So they made him the assistant vice principal and they made Mesa my vice principal. He was a great, great educator, professional baseball player as well.(Interviewer) Yeah, he pitched for the Cleveland Indians or what? I don't know much about baseball, but he was in A league. We had the same similar kind of philosophy about education, and we could talk for hours and hours about what we should be doing in the schools. And in fact, almost every Friday we met at the bar in Sunnyvale, and would talk until dinner time. And that became like a nucleus because then the people would join us. That was a great time in education for us.

(Interviewer) Who were some of the other teachers that you said John, you when you and Pete would get together, do you remember some of the other folks?

Yeah, negatively. I remember some that I would not have hired if I had a choice.

(Interviewer) Paul, you said something to me the oether other day. You said you held all these positions in education and you never had to apply for the job. Can you tell us the story of how that happened? I just happened because they assigned me to those jobs, and I never applied for them. Part of it was like being a counselor, you have to have a credential for counseling. But I was encouraged to become a counselor from the classroom. Though I enjoyed being in the classroom, I accepted the position and then it just escalated from there. I felt needed, and students would come to you for advice. And as teenagers, they always had a lot of problems to talk out. And I spent a lot of time listening.

(Interviewer) And the next job, you didn't apply for that either after being a counselor?

I didn't apply for any of those, principal or vice principal.

Well generally the superintendent would come to you and ask you if you would serve. And so they would open the position where there would be an outright appointment. That happened when I was superintendent too. The board of trustees didn't want to do a search because they said it was a waste of money. They were supportive of me before that opening occurred. But yeah, I think that part of it was the support I received from the community, from the parents who had other siblings there.

(Interviewer) Did you also have the support of the staff and the faculty?

Yeah, student body too. I remember David Cook, he was a senior, a student body president, student body president. He spent a lot of time in my office just talking and at the board meeting where my appointment came up, he got up, and he said that he thinks that the board should open the position up for, for anyone to apply. And he said, but we think that you made a wise choice and that you couldn't do better than Mr. Sakamoto. I had the credential before because of the general secretary, which is easy to get, just one more year after your bachelors.

Timeframe 1:40:27 >> end

(Interviewer) Why did you choose Michigan State-- Michigan?

I was recruited by Don Leu, who was a professor of education at Michigan State, and he became dean of students, Dean of the School of Education at San Jose State. He was my mentor also.

(Interviewer) And how do you spell his last name for me?

Leu

(Interviewer) But he wasn't Asian.

No

(Interviewer) And how did you know him?

He was a professor at San Jose State. President Wahlquist was the president of the university, and he wanted the school of education to become more of upfront about what their role is in society. And he was unhappy with the current, at that time, leadership in the school. So he recruited Dr. Leu, Don Leu, to come to San Jose State to try to infuse some of the new techniques of teaching into San Jose State. At that time, Stanford was the only research education institution and the others were just credential degree schools. So Don Leu did everything he could to change the direction of the School of Education. And he's the one that told me that I should consider getting a degree from... a degree further than the bachelor's and that he would help me financially. And he again arranged for a scholarship for Michigan State.

Dean Martin was at San Jose State when... when I was superintendent of schools. He was a middleburrier back East and a very young man for the job that he took, but very smart. He was the dean of students. And I had just finished my contract as a superintendent. And I was meeting with him and he said, 'What are you what are you going to do next?' And I said, 'I'm not sure. But I said that I took that interview with the Fremont Union High School District as principal of one of the school high schools,' I forgot which one now. And he said, 'Why don't you consider working with me here at San Jose State?' And I said, 'I told the board of education that I would let them know at the end of the week.' And he said, 'Well, don't make any commitments.' And he called the Sacramento Office of this School of Education, and I got permission to make an appointment to without any interviews. That was during the times when most school districts would involve the faculty, the students and the custodians and everybody in the decision making process. So it took months and months to make a decision, and he called Sacramento and got permission within a five hour period. And he said, 'You have the job, if you want it.' So that's how I became dean of students.

(Interviewer) The Dean of students or the associate dean?

Associate Dean. It's difficult to talk about yourself and like the way I was pleased that I was on this superintendent's selection committee for 17 school districts. Yeah. And those were the school districts around where I was superintendent, and I was on the selection committee for the Dean of Stanford School of Education and they never used a public school person to be on the committee is mostly professors. So those are high points in addition to working with students. And they are role that you played in the Board of Education was important because people don't recognize or appreciate the workings of the board and the superintendent. And they ask, 'How come you have so many superintendent turnover?' It's because board and superintendents don't get along because philosophically they differ. And, and the superintendent then has to be, have enough substance to stand up to the board to say that the board is going in the wrong direction.